State and local officials, including DNR Secretary Josh Kurtz, held a community meeting in September 2025 to discuss the state's plan to acquire land for a new Wetipquin Creek State Park in Wicomico County. This meeting was the first public opportunity for many residents to learn about the project, leading to a Question and Answer session. Residents voiced significant concerns about the lack of transparency in the process, as well as the potential impact of the proposed "passive recreation" park on traffic, trespassing, hunting, and the safety of adjacent properties.
Full Video: Wicomico Community Public Meeting on Wetipquin Creek State Park (Sept 2025)
Show Transcript
Disclaimer: The following transcript was auto-generated and may contain spelling or contextual errors.
You're watching Open Agenda. Here's
>> So, good good evening everyone. Um, I'm
State Delegate Tom Hutchinson. Uh,
myself, State Delegate Chris Adams, and
I represent you in the House of
Delegates over here on the west side.
Senator Johnny Mounts, District 37 is
here tonight as well. Um, we also have
Senator Mary Beth Carrosa from the other
side of Wakamako County as well. Here
tonight
we have uh Delegate Barry Bechum from
District 38C. Um, here tonight from the
county side we have council Comco
Council President John Cannon here and
we have Councilman Jeff Merritt and
Councilman um James Wyn as well and
>> David
>> and David is here. I'm so sorry. Thank
you. Thank you. Thank you.
Um boy, this is great. Uh uh nice to see
everybody coming out. I I think
transparency is is is
um really important. I know there's been
a lot of questions, concerns, unknowns
about the future of the Pipkin Park um
coming here to the west side. So, we've
arranged this meeting. Delegate Adams
and Senator Mounts and I, we had a
meeting about a month ago with a smaller
group to really get the questions out
and we thought it'd be great to have a
community uh meeting here tonight. So,
just sort of how this is going to work
tonight. Next, I'm going to have Captain
Joe Lapman come up to give us a prayer,
say a couple comments in behalf of the
Westside Community Task Force. Um, then
John Cannon will come up and speak on
behalf of Wakcomo County. A and then I'm
going to turn it over to DNR and we do
have Secretary Josh Kurts here. Um and
and I got to tell you, in the three
years that I've been in the House of
Delegates, Secretary Kurts has been so
open, so transparent, so accessible.
Anytime I've asked him to come out to
talk to the community, he's always been
willing to do so. And I I think you're
going to hear a lot of good information
from him and hopefully um a lot of good
uh feedback as well. He also has brought
with him as well the director of parks
services, Angie Krenshaw. Um and then we
have uh some guys over there on the side
that are part of um natural resources
police. So we have some questions that
will revolve around them. Um but a lot
of what DNR wants to do is really be a
part of the community and make them be a
part of the community. So I'm glad
everybody came out here tonight. I'm now
going to turn it over to Captain Joe
Lab.
All right. How's everybody?
>> Okay. This is your task force. This is
what we do. This is what um I can say
that the task force has gotten all these
great people together. And as neighbors
of the community, I will certainly say
that um your voices were heard by us as
your local task force. And it's a great
honor to have all these people here. And
you guys know that every time I conduct
a meeting, whether it's a small one or a
big one, I always say a word of prayer.
So, if you would bow your head and uh
I'll open up with that. Heavenly Father,
we thank you for the opportunity to come
together with our leaders. And we thank
you for the opportunity of all of us to
be great neighbors with each other. And
Lord, we ask in your son's precious and
holy name that you watch over all of us
in our questions and our concerns. And
we ask Lord that we remember that the
delegates and everybody here understands
that we the voice that we have as a
community, they're here for us. And
Lord, we ask that you watch over them in
all that they do in the community. In
Jesus name we pray. Amen.
Um
I think John Can's going to come up next
and speak. And what I will do is um when
we get to the question and answer part,
what I would like when you guys start um
asking questions after the secretary has
spoken, what I would like to do is hold
it to questions first. Ask the secretary
questions after his his speech and then
if we have a comment section, we'll do
comments afterwards. Okay. Thank you,
John.
>> Thank you. Appreciate it. A part of your
welcoming committee. It's good to be
here. Uh glad to see so many people
here. You know, we have a lot of respect
in Lanco County for this west side
because we've seen what you all have
done just in the last few years and from
a council perspective, not only just the
number of years I've been here, but I
think all the members of the council are
so amazed as to what this community has
done on your own to improve your
community, this community hall being
part of that. So needless to say that
when we when we got wind of the fact
that there's going to be a state park in
Wcomo County, I think the same question
came across every council person's mind
as did everybody in this room such as
what is this all about? Why is this
here? And why didn't I know anything
about it? So that leads to a lot of
questions and concerns on the part of
everyone. But we're trying to respond as
quickly as we can, as effective as we
can to address that problem for you.
I've been around quite a while. I know
some of some in theirs might have said
too long, but I've been around a long
time and I don't think I've seen a
community event where we had in a
community issue where you had so many
count council representatives involved
and so many state members of your state
delegation involved, delegates and
senators involved, members of the such
as Steve Miller, the department of
recreation and parks involved and also
from the state of Maryland all across
the board. It has come to you my from
what I see today. It has come to our
attention that this is very important.
It's very important for your community.
We want to make sure we do this and we
do it right. We started out today at
about 220. We went to Connley Mill uh up
on the north end of Salsbury and then we
came down to Pirates Worth and Peton to
look at those parks and now we're here
and we did all that with Secretary Kurts
because Secretary Kurts has agreed that
he wants to make sure that the state of
Maryland is doing the right thing for
each and every one of you. wants to make
sure that what he's doing right for the
mer state of Maryland is also right for
Wamiko County and also right for the
west side community. So ask all the
questions that you want as long as we
get out of here by midnight
that's when those guys get involved gets
too late. But seriously, um, ask the
questions, get you have to get your your
concerns answered so you know when you
feel comfortable with what's happening.
And I'm sure between the group that's up
here, your task force committee's done a
great job. And I have a lot of
confidence, a lot of confidence in the
secretary that he's going to help answer
all your questions and and, you know,
make you feel a little more comfortable
about where we are today and where we're
headed. So pay attention to state parks
and
what's the other
>> partnership.
>> Partnership parks. That's a new word for
me to partnership parks and state parks.
They're two different things, but they
can both work very well within the
community, within the county, within the
state. I'll leave it there. So, thank
you very much again for coming out on
behalf of Con County and the council. Uh
we really appreciate it. We're glad to
see everybody here. Thank you, Joe. Can
we go straight to the secretary?
Secretary Kurts. Thank you very much.
>> Uh good evening everybody. Thanks for
having us today. Um really appreciate
it. I want to thank the the state
delegation uh your local elected
officials for the tour uh that we got to
go on today and see a bunch of different
great opportunities for us to keep
working with Wcomo County. Um we do have
a little presentation um that we'll put
up here in a second, but I wanted to
start uh first off addressing the
concerns about not knowing anything and
hearing anything about this in advance.
And I wanted to start kind of with uh
the process that we have to go through
for acquisition in the state of Maryland
um that we're kind of bound to and why
this is really the beginning of the very
public part, the planning part, the part
that we will seek a significant amount
of community feedback and input when it
comes to actually implementing and
building a park that allows us to
frankly be a good neighbor. Um, when
people think about the park service
across the state of Maryland, they tend
to think about Sandy Point, Asetique,
Papsco, infrastructure heavy, millions
of people. That is three of the 74th
parks that we have across the unit. Um,
many many more of our parks than those
three are about preserving our rural
culture. They're about telling stories.
They're about protecting wildlife.
They're about giving people, you know,
passive recreational opportunities. um
and very much what we're thinking in
this park. So, how do we actually go
about as a state of Maryland acquiring
property for a state park? Um I'm going
to use exactly this as the example. Um
and frankly, this started 8 years ago.
So, uh, understanding that the landowner
was really interested in preserving the
incredible job that they've done on that
property, preserving and restoring the
homes, um, ensuring that it is a very
clean and healthy environment, a robust
amount of wildlife. Um, it still has
working agriculture, all of the things
that we love to see on our state parks.
Um, we've been having conversations
going back those eight years with this
land owner about having a acquisition by
the state of Maryland. So that's the
initial stage when we're negotiating
with a private land owner. We aren't
able to talk about that with the public
because it's a private real estate
transaction at that point in time. Um
that takes us to board of public works.
That's really when we can become public
with this uh conversation which is uh
which happened earlier this year went
through board of public works. What
board of public works does is it says
hey state of Maryland this is a public
conversation. We think it's a good idea
to do this acquisition and here's the
cap for the dollars that you can spend.
keep doing that negotiation. And
frankly, that brings us to today. We're
still having those active negotiations
with the land owner. Um, and then we
will, if we're able to purchase the
land, we'll then move into that detailed
conversation, continuing to have
meetings just like this as we put a plan
together for the the potential park. Um,
so we can actually go back, Lydia. So,
conceptually, what are we looking at
here? Um, with Typton Creek State Park,
uh, around 445 acres, two parts on
either side of the creek. uh
approximately 210 acres of mature
forest, 8 acres of non-title and tidal
wetlands, 8,000 linear feet of frontage.
All of this says to the Department of
Natural Resources is that this is a
really important property for clean
water and for wildlife habitat. And this
is also a property we're very interested
in because it's already got protections
on it, easement protection, critical
area protection, so that we won't be
impacting any of those or considering
any type of development um in that
property. And I think that's that's one
of the things that we wanted to discuss
with you all tonight uh next time.
Um so just really quickly, map of the
park um as you can see.
um as you can see there. And then here
is um just another one with kind of
existing land uses. So this is showing
you where there's buildings. This is
showing you where there's agricultural
areas, forested areas, um and marsh
areas. Um as well as some of the
incredible restoration and preservation
work they've done on the the property
and the facilities there. Next slide,
please. I kind of covered this one. We
can go to the next one. Um, biggest
takeaway from that slide is this is the
beginning of a robust amount of
conversation and which is part of the
reason we wanted to have many of our
folks here who work locally. Um, we have
Angie Cretchaw who's the parks director,
but I I know many people have interacted
with Dana Patera who's our eastern
region manager and then eventually this
will have a park manager who many of the
folks will get to know. Um, and really
the reason we want you all to know these
people by name, we want you to see them
in their communities is because if you
have any issues, you have any concerns,
you want us to do something different,
you can always reach out to them. If you
don't hear from them, you can give me a
call. Um, and I think one of the things
that we kind of joke about when we get
new parks and new facilities is if
somebody else buys that land and you
have an issue with what they're doing,
you guys kind of got to figure it out
yourself. Well, you can call any of the
elected officials in this room and and
I'm I guarantee you I will hear from
them. Um, and we'll make sure that we
have any fix any issues.
So, we have a highlevel conceptual idea
for this park that we wanted to share
with you tonight. And really, it's about
passive recreation. This is not a park
where we have intentions to do
infrastructure development. This is a
park where we are envisioning minimal
trail usage, walking, bird watching,
those type of opportunities. Um, we
would also be making sure we're staying
on top of any concerns for deer. Um we
have archery programs on all of our many
of our our properties. Um even in areas
that are suburban and urban. Um so we
can ensure that we're managing deer
population so they're not negatively
impacting the surrounding land owners.
If we have a lot of concerns around that
from land owners, we can actually very
heavily restrict how we're doing those
hunting programs. So that is something
that we would build out in conversation
specifically with the neighbors to
ensure that there's safe and robust
opportunities on that property.
Um really the big goal here is
preserving and educating visitors about
the history of this land, about the
history of this part of the state, the
agricultural legacy that is here in
Wcomo County and in the state of
Maryland. Um we see this as an
opportunity to potentially bring school
children out to get a feel for it and to
see it. Uh understanding that the the
existing roadways and things um are not
conducive to bringing a lot of people.
That's a good thing. We're not trying to
build a very large park where we're
driving thousands of visitors a year.
What we are trying to do is create an
incredible experience for the folks that
come down here and want to go on the
property.
Next slide, please.
Um, oh, sorry. An important piece on
that last slide, uh, traffic is always a
big concern whenever we develop an park.
And so what we do in order to ensure
that we're not exacerbating any traffic
issues or damaging any roads, is we work
with either the local Department of
Transportation or the State Highways
Association, whoever owns or has um
jurisdiction over that road. We do a
traffic impact study to ensure that
we're not going to cause any long-term
issues. Uh if we are concerned about
that, we can actually work with them to
make sure that we're not um causing any
of those impacts and actually either
changing traffic patterns in terms of
thinking about number of parking spots.
Um, and important to know, parking spots
for us is really visitorship. So that's
kind of how we control the number of
people that come on our state lands.
Once we fill all the parking spots, the
park is then closed for the remainder of
the day. Um, and so again, we really
wanted to show you um the incredible
natural resource history and the natural
resource legacy on this property. Uh,
very mature forest, a lot of title and
inner title spaces. Um, incredibly
important. Uh and this is one of the
things that we're actually looking for
when we acquire property. Um we look at
this thing called a targeted ecological
areas layer. Basically what we're saying
here is that this is really good
ecosystem, really good habitat for a
wide range of things we care about.
Next slide or is that the last? Okay. Um
and that's the last one. So um a couple
other questions that have come up in
conversations today I wanted to talk
about. Um so we talked a little bit
about traffic. Another way that we
manage traffic is through um we call
this a people and traffic movement uh
contract. And what that does is it
allows us to basically evaluate is the
way that we're operating the park
causing additional traffic backups and
then we can change that operation. And
the way we do that is through buy
advanced passes. That way you know ahead
of time if you are going to be able to
get into the park or not. Um and that's
really helped us kind of limit those
traffic impacts we've seen in other
parks across the state of Maryland. We
get a lot of questions from local
neighbors about how do you guys handle
trash? Um, and what we do in the park
system is we have a pack in packout
ethos. It's they're considered trash
feed parks. That does not mean we the
park service does not deal with any
trash. If someone were to come and to
throw trash on the ground, we are able
to have our parks employees make sure
that it is being picked up and it's
being disposed of. Um, but what we do is
we encourage people not to bring trash
in and if they do to pack it out with
them. Um we've seen a lot of success
with that, but that doesn't mean that we
would not be responsible for and be
daily removing any trash that is left
behind. Um trespassing is something that
is often times a big concern amongst
neighbors of parks. Um that's one of the
reason I wanted to be here today so you
can get to meet them and see them. Um
but when we manage our parks, it's the
Maryland Park Service and the Natural
Resources Police. And the way we do that
is natural resources police will be
patrolling. We also have park service
that can give them a call, call them out
um to ensure that if there's any issues,
they're able to handle that. But they
would be looking for trespassing, you
know, people acting erratically, any
kind of potential issues like that. We'd
also be looking at any buildout of
trails, keeping that away from property
and boundary lines. We want to make sure
that people don't accidentally trespass
and that they aren't given a chance to
look across into another property and
say, "That looks interesting. Why don't
I take a few more steps?" Um, we also
heavily sign all around our property so
that people know you have reached the
boundary. Um, and I think those are some
of the the biggest concerns we've heard
from other communities. I also just
wanted to say, you know, we spend a lot
of time in communities whenever we roll
out a park answering a lot of questions
of concern from local members and it's a
the wide range of questions depending on
kind of what that actual community cares
about and some of the issues they've
seen in those spaces before. Um, but one
thing that is actually great about
having a state park is if you're
concerned about things like poaching,
other issues that we've seen in other
spaces is more eyes and more people
tends to mean less of those issues
because they can report them. Uh, so by
having visitorship to spaces, it allows
us to protect and preserve those. When
we look at this park, I think what we're
really thinking about in this potential
park, I should say, again, is um really
low impact. We're not looking to build a
big visitor center. We're not looking to
build a big paved parking lot. Um, this
would be minimal parking, but enough for
people to be able to really enjoy the
area and participate in a wide range of
of low impact passive recreational
opportunities. Uh, potentially an
archery hunting uh, uh, opportunity as
well to manage the deer. Um, but again,
those are the kind of things that we
would want to have conversations with
the neighbors about and decide if they
would actually be appropriate. Um, so
I'm happy to answer any questions.
That's just very high level. Uh, and
also this is just going to be the first
of many conversations if we are to
acquire the property that would kick off
a much more detailed set of
conversations with our parks planning
team. And that would be really building
out the entire management plan for this
potential park. Um, that would be
several meetings, several opportunities,
and I think we would work really closely
with the task force to to to coordinate
and convene those um to ensure that we
are we are being good neighbors. At the
end of the day, that's what our job is.
It's be good neighbors to provide safe
opportunities for people to experience
the incredible natural resources and the
cultural resources that we have here in
Maryland. And that is conceptually um
what we're thinking for this potential
park here in Matyp.
And I think delegate has a microphone
for folks for questions.
>> And I'll actually start out with the
first question we brought up earlier.
When you look at that um map up there,
you see the creek there's up to the top
top part of the park. what will happen
on the other side of the
>> Yeah, I think really actually this this
is the perfect slide for this. Um what
you see on the bottom side is really
intact and and impactful habitat. It
also was our understanding from for the
landowner was owned to protect the the
view looking down onto the manor. Um so
we would be keeping that to kind of as
that exactly as it is. um not looking
for any buildout on that side of the
creek to protect that man that that Leo
which was the original intent. Um and
also because it's an incredible
opportunity for you know for habitat and
for the species that we care about. So
that would be you know if we're looking
at them as two spaces you know the the
this side of the creek would really be
where we would be looking to have
visitorship.
>> Thank you.
Will there be
>> will there be any deed restrictions so
that future administrations down the
road might change we don't want this to
be a good we want to get these
restrictions
>> yes and um the great thing about this is
we have u Maryland environmental trust
deed restriction we have the critical
areas issue so there's several
protections in place on this property
that would keep anybody from frankly
being able to do that development um
regardless Regardless of who's making
decisions for the park service
>> okay um I understand the university
buildings on the property how are we
going to generate income and maintain
those buildings
>> yeah so a great thing about the way that
we operate our parks um is that we have
a shared operating budget across the
entire park service and so I touched on
earlier kind of those three parks where
we're seeing 10 million visitors. A lot
of our revenue is being generated out of
those major parks to be able to then be
spread around and do the operating
budget. Um the other thing we have
active a on this property. We also do
agricultural leases where we have
existing agriculture. That's another
revenue source that we have um as a
department. We put that back into our
operating funds. That would not
necessarily just be for this park, but
it's around 16,000 acres that are
actively leased. Um we do rentals, a
bunch of different things that generate
revenue for us across the state. Uh so
this park would not have to be
responsible for generating its own
revenue for operating. That would be
shares across the operating budget and
really the the revenues that we generate
all across the system.
I'm more concerned about the fact that
uh farmers who already have been told
that they have a date that they have to
have their crops out and to be able to
sign up for the lottery to be able to
find next year. And that sounds like
somebody already owns it.
>> Yeah, we'll I'll follow up on that
because we haven't made any decisions
about the the way that we would lease
that land. Um it's not a lottery. It
would actually be on site there where
people can come and bid to to for the
particular parcels. Since we don't own
it, we have not made any decisions about
that, but we can follow up with the land
owner. That that would not have been a
decision that we we made or push out.
>> So, we were given authority by BPW to
acquire it um up to $3.3 million. We're
still negotiating whether it's a sale.
You know, obviously the landlord would
have the option to donate as well.
>> Where does this get the money?
>> That money comes from program opening
space um which is a uh real estate
transfer tax revolving fund uh that we
manage. It's how we do all of the the
land acquisitions for the Department of
Natural Resources. It also goes to our
our local parks. Um so so Steve and his
team manage the local side of that. It's
allocated to all of the counties. Um so
that's where the the funding would come
from program open space
um
the um
people
>> use the mic people staying on that
are you going to have to
break the code
to, you know, the farms. Will there be
new staff there to stay there?
>> So, if if we were required, yeah, we
would have a park service staff that
would be managing that property. Um, I'm
not sure if we have we we haven't made
any decisions yet about if we would have
somebody living on site. Um, but we
would not be doing kind of camping or
overnight for for the public. Uh, unless
we would have somebody living on site
there. So, it would be open dust to
dawn. um any of the facilities that we
have, if we were going to allow people
to stay overnight, we would have
somebody from the park service would be
staying overnight.
>> Okay. One other thing,
>> did I hear you mention deer?
>> Yes, ma'am.
>> Okay.
We want to make sure that they're not
going out there.
>> Okay.
That is absolutely a discussion. I think
the two things we try to manage with
deer is if we have deer living on our
property that are going off onto other
properties and impacting the a spaces
then we will have managed hunts for
them. Um, but if hunting is something
that the community does not want to see
on this property, we we're open to that
conversation
and and any hunting, if there is any
would be archery um for the safety
reasons
once you do acquire the property, how
long until it goes into the level?
>> Yeah, so um frankly, this is this is one
of the closest things um I think that
we've ever seen to turn key. Um this
will be a very short turnaround time for
us. Um the property owner has done
frankly a stunning job with managing
that property. Um keeping basins down
really really nice high quality
infrastructure in terms of the building.
Uh the things we would need to figure
out is that traffic impact uh and the
driveway. Um but those would be
something that we would work through
with the community. Um I think this is a
because of how turnkey this is with our
public processes. I think we could
probably get this open in about a year.
probably a year would be what we would
be looking at making sure we have enough
robust time to put that plan together
with the community.
>> So with regards to the hunting on the
south side of
will that be a lottery?
>> So I I don't know if we would hunt the
southside. I think we're we'll we'll
need to figure that out. Um but the way
that we do the our manage funds is we
basically set a number um and we would
say there are six permits available and
then it would be a lottery from there.
Um but it wouldn't be like anybody and
everybody could get a pass and come on
that would be set at a certain number.
Um we would then have park service
checking them and checking them out
making sure they're staying in the areas
that they're supposed to be. So it is
it's much more of a management fund on
both parks properties.
Is there any chance that the adjacent
land editors will get that lottery?
>> I'm not sure. I can't guarantee that.
Um, but they they're definitely able to
put it.
>> Why can't guarantee it?
>> Uh, we can't pick those. We can't just
pick who gets to hunt the property
because it's a state property. You have
to open it up to to anybody who wants
it.
>> Yeah. But the adjacent band measures
also state taxes.
>> Oh, no. Absolutely. So, we would
preclude them. They would absolutely be
able to if if they they won the lottery,
but we can't pick and choose who who
gets to come on. We would have to make
that um make that kind of a a lottery.
>> And there's no way you can make an
exception on it.
>> Not that I'm aware of. Um but we can
talk about it, but it's it's tough for
us because if it's protected with public
um taxpayer dollars, we have to make it
available to all the environment
taxpayers.
So earlier you mentioned all these
issues with all the other street parts
and those are also the issues that we're
concerned with. And when you said that
it made me think that okay these are all
issues with the other state parks and
we're going to have the same issues.
We're going to have trespassers. We're
going to have trash. and have people
that don't respect, you know, boundary
lines and and you can't even promise
that the current respect farming proper
that they've been doing many years
and and frankly I'm a little bit
surprised that somebody hasn't contacted
me yet about
>> the right wing.
>> Are you on the southern side?
>> Yes.
>> Yes. And I think that's the the
conversation there would we would need
to have with you is if we would be doing
public or if it would just be for
department staff. Um but we would would
definitely want to talk to you because
there would need to be an ement if we
were to access it through that existing
that existing roadway.
>> So why haven't you
>> because we haven't acquired the property
and we might not keep that existing
roadway if if if we don't need to.
>> Okay. So let's go back to the beginning.
Yep. So, this contract been signed with
Donald Grant.
>> I'm sorry.
>> Has the contract to buy the property
been signed?
>> No, we have we have not closed on the
property yet.
>> No, closing is a different issue. Has
the contract been signed to buy the
property?
>> Um, no. We we have not finalized the
sale yet. We're still negotiating. And
there
when the land sale there's normally a
contract sale sign for intent to
purchase the property.
>> Oh, but we would have done an intent to
purchase before BPW um saying we want to
buy the property, but we haven't signed
anything that says we've formalized the
deal yet. So, we're still negotiating on
how the transaction would go, how we
would buy it. So it's it is not. So we
give a we do that intent when we send
that to the board of public works which
just says we want to buy this piece of
property and then the board sets the cap
the 3.3 million is what they set as a
cap for how much we could use to spend
up to that
>> partic
the the trespassing of the trash. So
those are not current issues that we're
dealing with in those parks. We we we
hear those concerns whenever we start
developing markers. And so the way that
we manage them um for trespassing, it's
signage. Um it's people on the ground,
it's boots on the ground, it's
citations, it's having law enforcement
as part of the department to make sure
that we're managing that. For trash, it
is our staff that are there. We do
packing, pack out. We try to keep people
from bringing as much trash in as
possible, but that is managed by our
maintenance team and our park staff. So
they're actually doing traffic pickup
and collection throughout the park
throughout the day.
>> So you realize that during hunting
season it's a horrible story down there
that there's people being dropped off on
on properties picked up after they're
done hunting and it's already a problem
with trespassing. So you you know signs
don't mean squat to me. People just go
online by them, say it, see them. I
don't care to have to patrol my property
for trespassing. I don't care to have
someone come up to my property, to my
house, and say, "Hey, I've lost a deer
at whatever on your property. Can I go
vote for it?" I don't care to have any
of that in the future.
>> Yes, ma'am. Totally understand. And
yeah, and that is our responsibility,
right? if there is a managed hunt. Um,
one that would be check-in, checkout.
So, it couldn't just be people dropping
off, walking into the property. They
would come into a central station and we
have specific protocol if they had a
wounded deer and it were to go onto
another property. Um, if that is a big
concern, we can also not have a managed
hunt on the property. Um, we would just
have to balance that with the the deer
damage um for the surrounding land
owners. Uh but that that concern about
trespass is something that we would have
to we would manage on our facility on
our side. And so if you saw somebody,
you know, the park manager's phone
number, you wouldn't have to address or
deal with them. You can give us a call
and we have natural resources police or
park staff who would be able to actually
deal with the trespasser for you. So it
would be our issue um to deal with.
>> But I'm still going to have to chase
them around, find out who it is. you
guys aren't going to get there within
the time that they're going to run off.
So, it's going to be, you know, it's
going to be a huge inconvenience for the
adjacent land owners to have to control
this to begin with.
>> Yeah, I I hear I very much hear that
concern. I think what I would what I
would say to that is we're managing this
in a multitude of other spaces and have
figured out ways to ensure that we're
not having rampant trespassing. And I
think what we could do in the future is
also bring in more of our park staff.
We've talked through how we've done that
differently in each of our parks. And
that would be part of the kind of
overall strategy build out. What is
going to be the most effective way for
you all? Maybe it's not communicating
with us, but for us to then manage that
and where you're seeing those concerns,
right? Are there certain parts of your
property you're seeing people come on to
from that area? Um that would be our
responsibility. But the the if there
were hunters on our property, they would
have to be checked in and registered
with the department. So we would have a
very good handle on who's on the
property and we would set boundary lines
for them. And if they were to trespass
on your property, they wouldn't be able
to, you know, there would be, you know,
citations, there would be issues. They
wouldn't be able to come back and do
that because we're trying to make sure
that that we're managing the property
responsibly and it's not having those
issues for any of our neighbors.
>> Josh, talk a little bit about the
hunting program.
>> Yeah. Actually, yeah. Andrew. Well,
Angie's going to give you a little bit
more on the hunting program and then
we'll go to the next question.
>> Howdy everybody. So, just to give you an
overview of hunting in Maryland State
Parks, all the parking occurs on the
park. The owner, the hunters sign in
ahead of time, then they sign in on the
sheet. They have to be out an hour after
sunset. And so, if they're not out, park
staff checks them to make sure they're
out. So, there'll be no one dropping
people off on Latipin Road or any other
neighboring road. They will park on park
property, do their hunting, and then
they leave. And I've worked at numerous
parks that all have hunting. After a
while, I know all the hunters. We're
friends. They let me know when they're
going to be there later. I called the
natural resources police. We make sure
they get out safely. We recently had an
hunter that came in too early. It is not
hunting season. And he got a citation.
So, this is handled very closely by the
department. It's a very serious thing.
We have hunting in 41 state parks and
that's been happening for 30 years and
we've had very we've had zero incidents.
So just so you understand, people will
come to the park, they will park,
there's an allocated number of parking
spots. They sign in, they have a tag or
something that identifies them as a
hunter. So we know who they are. We know
their permit number. And then they're
supposed to be out. And if they're not
out, then we handle it. But no one will
be dropped off because all the hunting
occurs in the park. Everyone signs in
and everyone signs out.
and it's heavily controlled.
>> How many hunters will you allow?
>> So her question was when you have a
hunt, how many hunters will we allow? It
really depends on the size of the
property and the size of the land. Josh
mentioned carrying capacity. That is a
big deal for us. Um the previous parks
I've worked at, we might have five or
nine parking spots for the day. We also
do ADA hunting where you can hunt from
your vehicle if you can't hike in and
hike out and that's been lovely for the
community. It allows people who can't
normally hunt to be able to hunt. Uh it
just really depends on the property and
this, as you can see, is not a terribly
large property. So it wouldn't be a ton
of hunting if we do allow hunting there.
As Josh mentioned, we don't own the
property yet, which is why you all
haven't been engaged, but we've been
doing a lot of planning and working with
the current land owner. And every time
that I visit, there is no invasive
species. And some of that is because of
their deer control and the agriculture
that they have.
>> I hope I answered your question.
>> Yes.
>> Hi. I want to go back to what I own all
the property
to the west in the main section. All
that's my family's farm. So it's over a
half mile property. My house is 300
yards from the property from their
property. But I want to step back a
little bit. Secretary said that we
wouldn't get any favors over the money
not getting tax. But how about all the
people in here that live in this area
and there might be a lot of people, but
I don't know if I'm against it. Why do
we have a say? We are tax payers whether
there's a park or not. I mean, if we're
paying for park, the citizens, why we
have no any say
whether there's a park or not, it should
be a vote. And granted, everybody in
West Georgia's county probably wants a
park, but the people who live here, for
the most part, I'm pretty sure adult
park. There's plenty of parks in this
county that aren't getting down.
>> Do you want to go to the final slide?
>> Yeah. No, I think that's um so the the
way the the way that we the way that we
look at this and the way you know the
way that uh we are required by law to do
it is to first look at those target
ecological areas and I understand that
um it's it's tough because we can't go
out and do any of this engagement
beforehand, right? We're put in the
situation where it's evaluate a bunch of
criterias, have a wielding land owner,
and then start to move forward. And so
we end up in situations where people
say,"Well, how do we not have a say?
This is when everybody gets as much of a
say as we can give, right? It's how does
this park get managed? What happens
there? How do we make sure that you're
not feeling any impacts from the park?"
Um, but unfortunately, that's just the
situation that we're with under in terms
of how we we can do the acquisition.
Oh, there there's a soft launch there,
but we're not going to add a ramp.
>> So, kayaks only would be from from what
he already has existing there.
I think there was somebody up front
here.
>> Thank you. I went home
>> I'm glad to hear that you went to and
saw other places in the county including
Historical Park. Uh and I I need to
Okay. Um I I'm very interested in Peton
Hall and the connection that we have
with Long Walk. So when Long Hill is
opened up to the tourist, I would hope
that there would be some cooperation or
collaboration with Peton Hall because
Isaac Kennedy who built Peton Hall in
1741 and I won't go into the whole
drummer roll uh married Anne Dashield
and his her grandfather built Long Hill.
So the Shields and the Candies
grew many generations intermarried. Uh
and so the people who were interested in
Peton Hall are definitely interested in
Long Hill. And unfortunately,
Long Hill has been, since I've been here
many, many, many, many years, has been
owned by someone who was not really
opening it up to the public to show
people what was there. So, I'm just
hoping when the state does acquire that
and they open it up as a tourist
attraction that there is some input on
the impact today will have with not only
Peton Hall but Peton Historical Park as
well.
>> Yeah. And I think just very high level
we uh we were at Peton today um and
having a conversation about how we could
you know work together in a partnership
form um in that programming space,
right? telling those stories I think is
really important and how they connect.
Um, but I'll let Angie talk a little bit
more about the the way that we interpret
history on the road.
>> Thank you. That's a great question. We
actually have some dashil in the park
service um who are descendants of that
family. They haven't been to the
property either, but they have a lot of
the family history that they're going to
help us connect the dots on. The current
owner bought this property as a place of
retreat for his family, which is why he
didn't open it up to the general public,
but now he's interested in sharing that.
his wife put a lot of time and effort
into the main house, furnishing the main
house, and she's a very wellrespected
painter. So, whenever I speak to him, he
wants me to bring people out for
painting. He wants to share it with uh
school kids. Um it will be mainly the
interpretation of the history of the
property and the Delm Marva Peninsula.
So, that's very important to us. Um and
it's very important to him, which is why
he wants to sell it to the state so that
it will be shared by other people. Yeah,
very good question.
relative to the uh thoughtful gentleman
behind me that spoke about the number of
people that don't want it. I'm one of
the few for whom he does not speak that
properly managed I think a park for the
population is a wonderful idea. We boed
up the creek in our little boat and
looked at the park from the water. It's
absolutely beautiful. And I think to
preserve this for people in the area is
a wonderful constant.
>> Thank you, Sarah. Lydia,
Lydia, could you go to the last slide,
please? Um there's a reason we're
looking at this property. Um we uh had a
report commission for Maryland State
Parks and one of the requests was um to
make sure that folks all over the state
have access to Maryland Park Service
property. Um, Wakamako County is pretty
far from a Maryland state park. People
in Delaware and Pennsylvania have more
access to Maryland state parks. That's
okay. Um, than people in Wakamako
County. And so that was one of the
things that was asked of us. Why isn't
there a Maryland state park in Wakamako
County? Um, but thank you for your your
support.
Hey ma'am in the purple.
>> I just want to add to that. There are a
number of people there who are this and
I have a folder of letters
from people.
Appreciate that. Thank you.
>> Oh, and your beautiful handwriting.
>> Secretary Kurts, you had opened up or
John Canid opened up about partnership
parks and I haven't heard that in your
discussion. Yeah. So, one of the things
we looked at today and I think um you
know when we look at other other
counties and other parts of the state
and how when we have a foothold park,
we're able to work really closely with
the local parks and recck department. Um
and one of the new tools that we have at
the state of Maryland is um called a
partnership park. Um and what this does
is allows us to to work together in
places that maybe the the state doesn't
own. Um but we can provide additional
human capital um additional services uh
to those different parks. Um there's a
lot of different models across the
state. Um some of those are actually
parks that this the state owns um and
then universities, nonprofits, local
governments get to kind of co-manage
that. Uh and what we were looking at
today was um three other areas in the
within Wcomo County that we think would
be potential opportunities for
partnership parks um kind of on
different scales, right? some one is a
space that has not had any any real work
done, any restoration done um but could
be a really incredible opportunity for a
large scale park. Um the second was
Peton which I think um really has a feel
more of what we're thinking for with
Twiquin. Um and there seems to be a
really good opportunity for us to do
joint programming. Um and having a a
state park foothold gives us that
opportunity um to work in partnership
with the local counties more effectively
uh than we can when we don't have kind
of dedicated staff in those counties. Uh
and then the third that we looked at was
Pirates. Um and Pirates Warf and um you
know phase two is happening now. We're
really excited to see that a beautiful
park uh and opportunities there on the
other side of the road for us to think
about partnering together to continue to
expand u local park access. Um so
partnership parks are are kind of
whatever we want to make them. um they
have a formal legal agreement between
two basically the state of Maryland and
another entity um that is either the
land owner or owner um who or who wants
to have a stake in what happens in that
um particular piece of property
you you spoke of uh kayak launches and
stuff like that in the state park. What
is your contingency plan for emergency
medical services to be able to get
access to that section of the creek?
Because right now it's landlocked. them.
We can't get off the creek cuz bridge is
too loud.
>> So, all park rangers are emergency
medical responders, which means we're
trained to keep you alive until someone
else like yourself or your team comes.
Um, we work on that with uh the county
and local officials to make sure that
everything runs smoothly and every park
has an emergency response plan. Um, and
that will include everything that we
feature, hunting, soft launch, but
again, none of that has been finalized.
But we work with the locals to make sure
that's good. We've also started doing uh
emergency roundts. This was a busy
summer for Maryland State Parks. So,
we're working with the natural resources
police, all of our park managers and
local counties to make sure they know
where our parks are. They know who we
are, and they know what we need. So,
we're going to work on doing a few
tabletop exercises to simulate issues
that we have in Maryland state parks.
And those are actually starting in two
weeks. So we do this a lot at a lot of
our Maryland state parks. Very good
question.
You mentioned the uh importance of this
area for wildlife and that you know it's
it's a targeted ecological area. It is
one of the most important green
infrastructure hub
uh areas in Wcomako County as well. I
just wonder what are the plans for
maintaining the integrity of the
wildlife communities and their habitats.
Um and and are you going to take
exceptional measures to make sure that
this exceptionally important wildlife
area is is not impacted negative. Thank
you.
>> Easy answer is yes. Uh and that's the
point of purchasing it and working with
the current owner. uh they have somebody
that is the current groundskeeper and
we're going to work with our maintenance
team to meet with them and to discuss
what they do and what's been working. As
I mentioned, I've been there a few
times. I've never seen an invasive
species. I've never seen deer scat. I've
never seen anything else there. So, what
they're doing is working. So, we're
going to continue to work with them to
make sure that works when and if we
purchase this property.
>> Gentleman here has the mic.
>> Dustin. Okay. When and if you do
purchase it, will there also be a
handicap accessible fishing pier on the
location? I do appreciate the fact that
recently by the particular bridge, they
put a little fishing pier there.
probably a 10-year-old pastor lot hit
the bridge
years ago when I was on the project
committee down here with Patt and
several more
when we had
13 sand was one of them came through
here and two up war I suggested back
then
got money from VNR
to build a new pier
to replace it when it was tore up why
not make it a tea so that you can get
more than four people out there. Till
today, that still hasn't happened.
Recently, I inquired about Code Road.
I've been told that that's been put on
hold.
Being with
disability, I can't go on a boat
anymore. I have family members that are
in spolifia with wheelchair that they
can't go out on the jetties. So, hunting
is great.
And I understand the concerns about the
property owners adjacent to it and all
that. I feel for him, but you know,
there's worse things that could actually
come to that piece of property
hits the table. Unfortunate that's going
to happen. And then maybe that's why
they didn't build the T on it in the
Bville Warf. I don't know. And I'm not
going to ramble long about it. But
hunting is great. I still try to fish
when I can. But uh when I pull up the
vibe war and there's already four people
out there. I turn around.
I went down here to Tiffan Bridge. There
was a couple people crabing.
My son and I, we did cast a line. So I
was like, "Okay, but you can't throw it
hard though cuz you're going to hit the
old pier on the other side or the
bridge." So that's my concern on that.
>> I hear your concern and thank you for
the question. I can't speak to the other
warfs, but accessibility and ADA
compliance is one of our priorities for
this property. U I mentioned the soft
launch and that's for canoes and kayaks
only. So making sure that that's ADA uh
is something that we can look into, but
since we don't own the property quite
yet, we're not quite there.
>> So I do post from down here
now.
Still waiting on a pier there too.
>> Did you hear that everybody? He's
waiting on him here at Pirates War.
>> Steve
>> Steve knows Steve's working on it.
>> Gentlemen, yeah,
>> I have one question. uh when we leave
here tonight um how will we get uh
ongoing information about the status of
the system and will there be some way
that we can see from um the state's uh
um IT grouping uh of the progress and um
future information will it come from you
or will it also come from other sources?
>> Yeah. So, um, what we'll do, uh, moving
forward is, and I think, uh, maybe put
Joe on the spot here, but I'd love to be
able to just work directly through Joe,
get information out to you all,
timeline, um, as we move into the the
next phase, if we're going to close, all
of that stuff. We'll send all of that to
Joe. Um, as soon as we acquire, we'll
start a website, and that website will
have all the information that we have
current about the park, um, upcoming
planning process, public meetings, all
of those things. will also be sharing
that with the local and state elected
officials to ensure that everybody's in
the loop. Um, but that then will will
kind of set out that timeline for all of
the the park management development or
park management plan development. Um,
and we'll communicate through the
website, but we're also glad um to take
any outreach. I know um Dana, who's our
Eastern Region manager, has already been
emailing with some folks uh and and we
can send contact info through Joe and
the task force to get to anybody who who
has um questions, concerns, comments,
any of that. as soon as we leave here
today.
>> Will this be the official name of the
park then to to look for?
>> That is yeah what the what we would name
the park? Yeah, we tend to name our
parks the the water bodies that we have
them off
>> in in regards to the wildlife.
Um
can't some of that area be sanctioned
for collective
conservation?
That's a really good question. I think,
you know, as we build out these plans,
it also, this is also an important um
important note. It's not just the park
service team that builds that out. So,
we'll have our wildlife and heritage
team be involved in that and they'd be
responsible for any um any any species
management, any uh work that would be
done there on specific species. Um but
you'd have the chance to engage with
them. You'll be able to engage with our
forestry staff, um our land acquisition
planning staff, our office of outdoor
recreation. So have the multiple units
that are responsible for these things
participate in the in the the uh the
management plan build out.
>> So how long are you anticipating that
we'll actually have true answers
about this? What what your proposals
are?
Um what your intentions as far as say
traffic control? I mean, we I feel like
you're shooting outside ideas, and
that's great. Well, how long before we
know that a contract's been signed and
this is a definite go?
>> Yeah.
>> And if so,
what exactly you you're proposing?
>> Yeah. So, we'll share all the highlevel
conceptual pieces. Everything in this uh
PowerPoint we can share through Joe. Um
and then we'll also we'll keep you
posted on the timeline. I'm just at this
point we don't know uh if and when we
would close with the land owner. Um
we'll let you know immediately uh once
we have that understanding and then the
actual management plan is really when we
can get into all those details, right?
Is when we can have those roundts and
start talking about how many miles of
trail, how where are the trails in the
park, how are we thinking about changing
that roadway um to help with traffic
flow. you know, once we would bring our
planning team in for all of that, but we
don't start that detail detail process
until um we we actually purchase the
property.
>> Do you have an estimate of time?
>> Uh January is what we're hoping for, but
this, you know, the the process of
closing can fluctuate.
Why why has it taken eight years to get
to this point?
>> Um that I do not do you know I think the
I'll let Angie answer that. I think
she's been involved with some of the
negotiation. But
>> so the question was why has it taken
eight years to get here? That's kind of
the process with a lot of our Maryland
state parks. This one's a little
different because we're buying both
parcels um from a private owner. So,
it's really uh up to the current owner
the speed at which it goes. We're also
working on some management agreements um
to manage the property and he's going to
donate everything inside of the house as
well. So, we have to get that priced. Um
and I'm not an expert on antique
furniture, so we have to farm that out.
I'm pretty good at my job, but I can't
tell you how much the chair in the
corner costs. And we're doing an
inventory on that. And we're also making
sure that we know what the donation is.
So, we've been working with the
Department of Budget and Management on
that. And land acquisition just takes
time. This has been going on for about
eight years. Uh, when it started, I was
an assistant manager. Uh, and now I'm
the director of the park service. So,
we're hoping to close it soon, but it's
really up to the current land owner.
>> So, my understanding is the owner has
donated 10 years of maintenance to Long
Hill to the to the state. What do you
plan to do after those 10 years are
over? Are you going to have the money to
maintain it as it should be maintained?
Uh, so you're speaking to an agreement
that we haven't signed yet and I'm not
comfortable speaking about in public,
but we do have plans for what to do uh
after the maintenance agreement is over
and we are I guess I'll say we're
friends with the current owner and he
wants to make sure this property is
successful. So, we are working on a
succession plan for what happens after
that. But I don't want to speak to a
contract that hasn't been executed.
>> Do you plan on the crop land that is
currently existing and being farmed? Um
I understand that it might all be
planted in trees. Is that
>> I have not heard that. Um I think
there's a lot of speculation out there.
I think with the easements that are
currently on the property and the fact
that most of it is critical area, it
limits what we can do. But their current
agricultural situation has been working,
so I see no reason to change it.
>> And the whole property is in the
Maryland Environmental Trust. Will you
be following that um that agreement that
Donald Graham had with the Maryland
Environmental Trust? Will you follow
everything that is uh allowed and not
allowed in that agreement?
>> Yes, ma'am. I have to in perpetuity, and
I don't plan to be here in perpetuity,
but that's the point of the easement.
>> Thank you.
>> You're welcome.
Uh, Delegate Chris Adams and Secretary,
thank you very much for being on Wakan
County on West Side uh, participating in
this and we all appreciate your
attendance here tonight with your with
your team. I want to make sure uh that
we're using words that everybody clearly
understands. It's a cobra project. It
was intentions, words that were said.
It's the beach replenishment or it's a
beach restoration project. So, I think
everybody generally understood or felt
we're going to get buried in something
different. Right. So, when we say a
passive uh park, I want to make sure I
understand clearly what that means
because what I think it what I think I'm
hearing you say is that this is a dates
park. This is not going to be the kind
of park like Shaders. My wife and kids
camped how many times over childhood at
Shad or Jane's Island where we hay out
to the point had a good time with. So
when we say passive I want to make sure
that we're clear as what that means. We
say use we're not talking about there
are being conversation camping for
example.
>> Yeah. So when we Yeah. Exactly. When we
say passive what do we mean by that? It
means day use. Exactly right. It means
we're not putting down, you know,
concrete trails. We're not building
off-road vehicle trails. This is
walking, sitting, enjoying nature, going
into the buildings, learning. Um, but
it's not an int when we think intensive
use for us. That's concrete boat ramp.
Um, that's really trails for things with
motors, etc. So yes, this would be dust
to dawn, uh some hiking trails, ability
to access the water through the soft
launch and the ability to to to go
through the property and see all of the
the buildings and the historical pieces
that that that um the land owner is
potentially donating to the state.
Right. So I think that's a very
important commitment that we maintain
throughout this whole process because I
think most people here uh whether
they're for it or against it generally
understand you know having the state
park can be a better neighbor perhaps
other options. So I think if we can
bridge that gap and have trust is the
place that that matters. Just one other
thing I'll say uh early on like February
and March I actually came down and
visited one of her properties and what's
a little bit unique about uh the
certificate statement park is that uh
it's not like a rectangle. It's not a
square piece of property where uh lines
of demarcation can be easily understood
either by hunters or visitors. And so
what's happening I think you're hearing
some frustration concerns that relate to
the idea that they don't adjacent land
owners don't think that people come to
enjoy the park are going to understand
where that line is between where they
can and they can't uh be. So I imagine
at some future point should this go
forward, you're going to have to
reconcile that in a meaningful way that
relates the other comment that I make is
that it's a a a creek that runs through
it. Uh so folks that like using kayaks,
etc. can also be having a good time and
sometimes having a good time means get
out of your kayak after kayak a
distance. So let me say property owners
are going to have some distaste for that
because that can easily lead to that
same problem which is people are using
way for the kayaking. Also we'll know
where the property line starts and ends.
So you're going to have some trespassing
issues. I bring that up to you because I
think these are going to be
more difficult conversations to have if
in fact this project's moving forward.
Again, thank you very much for being
here. We appreciate it.
[Applause]
We'll take a few more questions here.
I just wanted to ask at one meeting I
had been told that
there would be a reservation
issue like if if you want to go there
and bring school bus at children that
all has to be registered before you can
go there. is that I if you're coming in
a van with six people,
you need to contact someone and
register.
Yeah. If you're going to be using Well,
so I think there's an important uh
difference here. If you have like your
family and you have a sixperson van and
you come, it's treated as a a
residential or an individual vehicle. If
you are going to bring a community group
um or it's uh the commercial use, which
would be a community group, school,
nonprofit, etc., and you want to bring a
bigger bigger vehicle out, we would need
to be notified of that. Um, but it
doesn't mean that, you know, if you have
a larger van or something and and you're
bringing your family, then you wouldn't
be able to.
>> Okay? And that's also a customer service
thing that we do in the Maryland State
Park Service. If you want to bring a
large group of students to any park, we
call you, we talk to you, we talk about
what you want to do, the number of
people, uh, if you'll be eating there,
and then the number of, um, folks that
will be chaperoning as well. So that'll
be very similar, but that happens in a
lot of Maryland state parks. When
there's rangerled programs, we want to
make sure that we offer the highest
level of customer service and we can
only do that if we know what you want.
So that is why we do that with school
groups and large groups like that. So in
closing, I won't say anymore. I just
want to know exactly what this is, how
this is profiting the state. It's
profiting the county. What about the
west side? What do you see it doing for
us?
>> How long you got? Um, Maryland state
parks are a benefit to all of our
neighbors and we're a benefit to most
communities. If you like, we can talk
about this a little bit offline, but
every dollar that is spent in Maryland
state parks is increased in the
community. People come and they stay and
they eat. Um, they visit other
locations. They need to stay in hotels.
Um, so there is a lot of benefit to
neighboring communities.
We
don't have a lot of those facilities.
>> You don't? But Salsbury does and a few
other
>> Could you buy boonies for it?
>> Could we buy what?
>> A donut.
>> We'll take a collection and open up
boonies to get them back up.
>> Oh,
>> are there any other questions?
>> I got a question. Uh, one of the
questions would be for uh for the state
and the county. One of the things that I
had heard frequently in in numerous
meetings was um the roads, widening the
roads for say school buses and things
like that. Is that something that the
county that you would work with, say the
the county council and the executive um
and and how can we guarantee road
safety?
>> Yeah. So, road safety is a really
important part of that. Um and that is a
communicate that would be a conversation
with us um with the county department of
transportation and state highways. Um so
we would actually look at the route that
the schools local schools would be
taking if they were going to come here
and then also ensuring that the entrance
is safe for a school bus to go down. Um
that the other thing we would look at
too if if there needs to be road
improvements and that's not something
that could happen right away, we can
also do phases with parks. So it could
be open to the public um and then work
together on a plan for if there needs to
be widening or changes uh to the roads
to do that. The other thing we can also
look at um and we do this in some of our
our very more remote parks um is we'll
work with nonprofits, community groups
who have vans and we'll actually help
them find um transportation vehicles
that fit within the existing
infrastructure. So there's a couple ways
we could handle that.
>> Any other questions?
>> This
delegate Adam mentioned this, but I
think it's important that you understand
as land owners, I'm not a contingent
land owner, but I'm right across the
street. But, you know, we've we bought
properties, you know, it's I see this
similar to a commercial zoning chain.
You know, you wouldn't want a Walmart
next to your house, increase traffic and
so forth. So, I think it's just
important. I want to note that, you
know, you need to talk to the adjacent
man number one because we have motions.
Just wanted to note that.
>> Absolutely agree. And I think something
we'd be happy to do too is bring some of
the adjacent land owners we have from
other parks too into the conversation so
you can hear from them kind of how it
went, what that process went, maybe even
things for you to look at. Um, you know,
ways that it's worked, things that we've
learned from them. Um, we have a few
parks that have opened recently and we
have some very actively engaged
neighbors who I don't think loved the
idea, frankly, when we when we started,
um, but we've built really good
partnerships with. So, I also just offer
that if that's helpful.
So I have a question about adjacent land
values with the state park. What uh
what's going to happen with our land
values in the state park next to
>> Yeah. So there's a couple different
studies that we've looked at in terms of
what happens to land values and what we
see is either slight increases or
holding holding even. Um we are seeing
positive returns longterm too for folks
that live next to state parks. there are
um it it becomes really something people
want to buy. Um it's a smaller group,
right? But uh we have seen that be
beneficial to property values and
there's a couple of studies that we can
we can share if that's helpful um to to
see how that impacts the the local land
values.
going on.
>> Whoa.
>> I'm sorry. Um, I am an adjacent land
mandator. And
if this park wasn't right next to my
farm that we tried to,
you know, this is a farm that we spent a
lot of time, a lot of blood, sweat, and
tears.
And it's it's a place of peace for us as
probably all the rest of the adjacent
land there. Um
if I wasn't right next to it, I would
probably be all for it. So I understand
people that are for it. I don't think
that
I would find it hard to believe that
anybody
who lived next to it would be for it.
But if you don't live next to it, I'd be
all for it.
Right. So, so you know, I I love being
outside.
That's why I love my farm. And, you
know, it's it's secluded from houses
from everything.
And I don't like sharing my farm.
You know, I drive down my lane and it it
is a huge stress reliever for me. You
know, I've got an elder horse that roams
the property and I'm concerned for his
life and being shot
and
but I do understand that a lot of people
in this room want the state park. I get
I would be right there beside you if I
wasn't beside the the state park. So,
>> I I I want to commit to you today that
we are going to work directly with you
and the other land owners. I'm happy to
give you my contact information, Angie's
contact information. Um, frankly, you
know, we're going to be your neighbor.
We want to make sure we want to be the
best neighbor that you've ever had. Um,
and that means having an open line of
communications with us. Um, and frankly,
I wish I wish this process ran a little
bit differently and we could engage you
all earlier on in it. Um, but we are
very much committed to being the best
possible neighbor. Um, and I very much
want to continue this dialogue. I think
you you and the other land owners are
going to know very specifically some of
your pinch points and we want to address
those on the front end. Um, while we're
going to have these bigger group
meetings where we talk about long-term
planning and things like that, we'll
also want to have direct conversations
with you all um to make sure that the
plan fits within that piece, right? We
we don't want to take anybody's piece
away. Um, I think we want to share what
we see as an incredible opportunity for
for other people to get that same kind
of experience um with as many people as
we can.
>> Yeah. Uh, if this sale goes through, it
does become a state park,
what happens to the tax revenue that
Wcomako County would normally get on
real estate tax?
>> Mhm. So, um, couple things. The So, what
we've seen in our state parks, uh,
there's two counties, um, that we do a
payment in lie of taxes with because
they have a significant portion of state
taxes, um, of their local property tax
that comes out. Um, what we have seen
though is the economic return across the
county does boost when you have a state
park and more than offsets any property
value or any property loss. Um, but the
payment in le of taxes is also another
program that other counties look at. Um
but that does mean kind of uh using part
of the entrance fees uh for for offset.
>> So are you going to benchmark that today
and then look at it next year and see
what what the result is if it's really
bringing that much more revenue into the
county.
>> Yeah, we we constantly evaluate how much
revenue is being brought in by our state
parks and we're also working with um the
state department of taxation audit
taxation. Um, thank you. Yeah. Um, to
ensure that we're not seeing any major
changes to tax base.
>> Thank you, Delegate Adams.
>> Yeah, Secretary Kurts, thank you so
much. Angie, thank you for being here.
Joe,
so I think you all know Delegate Adams.
is your resident delegate here in in
Montgo County. But equally, um, we both
represent you, my business partner in
the back. I put my cell phone number on
the back. I'm always open to have
anybody call me directly, call delegate
out, call John,
call whoever you want.
