Show Transcript
Disclaimer: The following transcript was auto-generated and may contain spelling or contextual errors.
you're watching open Agenda here's our
host Joe
White thank you for watching open Agenda
I'm your host Joe White joined today
with our executive producer Joe venosa
how you doing Joe great how are you I
got a new shirt I feel good yeah they
look great uh so in today's show we're
going to talk about some of the business
that came up at the last meeting on July
16th uh we don't have an agenda yet for
the first uh the meeting in in August
but we'll talk about that next week at
our next show we also want to uh spend
some time with councilman Joe Holloway
uh met him in Parsonsburg at the fire
department there and uh had an interview
talk about some of the legislation was
just passed some of the issues coming up
through the county and and his views on
the referendum in November so Joe um you
you watched the last uh County council
meeting on pack 14 they did a great job
of covering it uh couple easy things
that that passed through I mean the
County Council they had a hearing they
they passed the bonding for the
Fruitland primary which I think is such
a great great thing much much needed and
long overdue yes and that's and that's
going to really help out that Community
they're also uh forming the task force
and the and the and the way that they're
going to use the Cannabis money that
that comes back through the state to
revitalize some of the neighborhoods
that are maybe even most impacted from
uh you know cannabis legislation in the
past and I really think that that has a
chance to um have a positive impact on
part of the community could really use
it MH absolutely there were two hearings
and no one spoke uh both of those were
pass Six to nothing U councilman James W
was was not at this meeting uh but the
third hearing was uh you know just has a
lot more attention and that was uh
brought up through the legislative
process through councilman Joe Holloway
to uh to have the County Council have a
say in off-road events on County
property MH uh you watched the the the
proceedings the hearing uh what did you
what did you see yeah I mean I think
that um moment of that legislation being
introduced and then passed uh for those
of you that that haven't heard about it
uh had a long backstory you know this
was really an outgrowth of all the
controversy and the Damage that was done
in a lot of people's minds because of
that uh Safari at the Quarry event where
the county executive basically you know
unilaterally um by her own admission you
know signed anou with a friend uh to
host an event on County property uh that
really created a lot of disruption and
concern uh among property owners and
homeowners uh in delmare and so this
legislation really gives the council via
the citizens uh an ability to actually
have some oversight over these things
and in the future uh what we'll probably
see from it is that if there is an
off-roading event if there is a
motorized sports event uh the public
will know about it uh there will be
parameters there will be legal and and
liability issues that will hopefully be
addressed before it happens they could
speak they could speak about it right
they can also call write email their
County councilman or woman it literally
is giving citizens the opportunity to
see things in a more transparent way
well and speaking of opportunities there
was a hearing at the County council
meeting prior to them voting for this
and a a few citizens did get up and
speak in favor of it uh it seemed like
it had great support U definitely
protect the Shadow Hills Community but
it also could protect your community the
next Community it is it is the kind of
legislation where you are seeing local
government respond to Citizens concerns
because and I think councilman hway put
it very well uh we have to protect our
neighborhoods and so you now with this
legislation don't have to worry about
one day if the county executive or any
any official has a cousin or a friend
that they want to you know have an event
for
that that they'll just do it on County
property with with no oversight no
regulation uh this creates a structure
where we actually have a system in place
to know what's going on I think too you
had um you had an event that was on
County owned property inside the city of
Salisbury there were a lot of questions
about code violations uh a lot of us
have reviewed theou as very vague we
actually still don't have the numbers
back well this is one of the great
Mysteries is two and a half months later
two and a half months later we've got no
and I remember uh you know bunky luffman
said several times you know they're
going to have an economic impact study
we're waiting on that we'll see what
happens but it's been two and a half
months uh ostensibly the assumption is
that the county actually lost money
because it seems that the um the
gentleman who owns the company that
hosted the event by his own admission
and by the county executive's own
admission lost money so this wasn't
exactly and and and no one wants to see
you know a business owner lose money
not good I've seen some of the other
events that that Mr Hoffman's run in
Worcester County uh there's a lot of
good things that he's done this was the
wrong piece of property at the at the
wrong the wrong way and it was also just
done completely without public input and
it it it truly is in every sense of the
word uh a bad situation or term I should
say well it does sound like through the
process the government or the County
Council is getting the the min in place
to to make sure it doesn't happen that's
the big Silver Lining is that it
actually created among citizens and the
council obviously a mechanism to
actually put a check on some of these
real big concerns that this event
created so I would say that is a a good
thing that came out of an otherwise
horrible situation yeah so uh after we
take a break we're going to come back
and I had a chance to sit down with
kelman Joe Holloway I'd like to ask him
questions about this legislation his
time on the council he's the longest
serving councilman and get his view on
maybe some of the challenges that are
coming up in the county so after we come
back we're going to check in with
councilman Joe Holloway Joe thanks for
coming out we'll be right
back all right thanks for joining us
again I'm here with uh councilman Joe
Holloway thanks for joining us today
thank you and thank you for what you're
doing well appreciate you taking the
time to speak with everyone
here so you've been on the Council now
for 18 years that's correct tell me a
little bit about what motivated you and
maybe even some of the things that
surprised you over the last 18 years
well you know I
think I've I've paid attention to
politics for a long time I joined a
National Guard when I was 17 and uh that
was two years before the draft before I
was able to get drafted and I paid
attention to government then because I
was concerned about what was going to
happen and uh about 19 I guess it was
about 1980 881 I went into business up
in Delmore um in a body shop and U had a
I guess my first runin with bureaucracy
or whatever you want to call it politics
this fell come along that was a mayor of
Delmore and says you can't have this
body shop here because you're not zoned
for it and I said well I've leased the
bill and I've hard employees you know um
I'm going to run a business he says oh
no you can't run a business you need to
close so I called the the gentleman I
released the building from and he said
who was it I said it was the mayor of
delmare he says well he he's confused
because that Shop's not even in the town
of delmare interesting he said so you
know you need to tell him to get lost so
anyway um we went through that then in '
85 I bought the store in Parsonsburg and
you know you run you you jump through
the Hoops um with
um bureaucracy politics you know trying
to get permits and things and you know
for the most part it was pretty good
good but
um I had a lot of interaction with
customers while I was there I was there
19 years the first time and you know
customers coming in you seen what their
concerns were um you saw that they um
you know somebody would come in on a on
a Wednesday and you know they had a
three kids and a husband and they'd only
buy half a gallon of milk because they
couldn't afford to buy a gallon you know
and you um you really got connected I
think you got conect connected to the to
to the neighborhood and to to the people
that you were serving and in that time I
was um you know I got to know Lewis
Riley was my bus driver back when I was
in elementary school Lewis became a
customer at the store Mr Edgar moris who
served on the County Council um you know
I had you know a lot of interaction with
them in fact I was on Mr edar Morris's
campaign um Mr leis Riley he was the
secretary of agriculture in the state of
Maryland Secretary a senator two
different and and his first first time
he was on the County Council his first
his first service was and even lol stus
you know I I kind of helped LOL stus
when he was running you know in the
neighborhood so I had a little bit of
you know background of dealing with you
know politics not that I was super
involved because I was so busy working I
was doing seven days a week at the store
and
um so I guess it was in
200 five 2004 or whatever I decided you
know I think I'll run for County Council
it wasn't anything that I you know uh
nothing against anybody was there I just
wanted to be on the County Council
because I wanted to be involved now I
had sold the store at that point in time
and
um I got I ran and won um super super
super grateful for the people that
supported me you know people came out I
mean I I didn't know the amount of
support that I was going to get it was
just amazing and so who would have
thought you know so I ran the first time
no thoughts about running a second time
third time fourth time you know you just
don't think about those things and
couple times I didn't have anybody run
against me some one time I had somebody
that was very well-funded run against me
and they didn't do so well um
so I'm still there you know and I've
enjoyed every minute and it's been
the best part of the job is when you can
help people and you can't help people
all the time and you got to be sure you
don't make those promises yeah I'll take
care of it because government is
complicated it shouldn't be but it is so
I think that's that's a pretty wise
statement actually yeah so you're
telling you're talking about what your
motivations were and some of the good
things but what have been some of the
surprises and maybe some of the
disappointments that you've seen in the
last 18
years well I'll go back to I guess one
of the first things that came up after I
got elected and that was the down zoning
of um Farmland in W Comico County um it
kind of split some of the farmers um
some of them wanted land down Zone
others didn't and the reason they didn't
want it down Zone was because it would
um devalue their property the ones that
did want it down Zone wanted it so they
could buy land cheaper so uh we actually
had a tractor Cade in in Salsbury when
this was going on the farmers came in
and drove their tractors around the
government office building upset about
down zoning Farmland during one of your
County Council meetings before our
County council meeting one day I think I
don't know if it was the day we were to
do the vote and that was a that was four
to three vote on that and and we um we
um you know it got shut down and you
know it would it would have really I had
one farmer that told me one time he'd
sold sold some property and they built
houses on it and I said see you sold
this property he said yeah he said if I
hadn't been able to sell those lots I
wouldn't be farming today so it kept
what and you listen I mean just a few
meetings ago you all had one of the
largest conservation pushes uh
protecting rural Farmland in this County
right that's a great example of of what
could happen if you if you if you take
some of those rights away or like you
said down Zone correct I also think
interesting too I mean you're talking
about the track tractor
Cade you know you all are out there
every you know twice a month people can
come and almost petition the government
face to face nothing gets done behind
the scenes oh yeah and we had we had a
lot of other things as you you talk
about highlights
disappointments we had the landfill
theft and and it was it was an
interesting situation with that because
we were in budget and
myself and another
councilman mentioned it was John Canon
who who it was the increase in diesel
fuel usage and we've got this excuse
well they're doing um work on a on a
road well they shouldn't have really
been doing work on a road and using
diesel fuel from the landfill and um we
brought that up and it didn't it it
didn't get discovered that that was
going on until months later and I kind
of go back and think if we had not had a
county executive at that time and and we
were under the county executive form of
government um because we started that in
2006 also would we have been able to
question that those actions more because
with the county executive forarm of
government the County Council is not
supposed to get involved in the
day-to-day operations of the government
so I'm not going to blame that on
anybody but I'm just looking back you
wonder if you have um if we' have had
that opportunity to be more involved
whether we could have discovered that
sooner so you touched on that and and I
want to go a little
deeper in November we're going to have
the referendum uh to go back to a County
Manager form of government what do you
see as the role of the County Council
under that form of government precisely
for an example just like you talked
about with the theft that the landfill
well you don't have the interaction with
the employees employees are employees
are encouraged not to talk to council
members council members are pretty much
you
know I won't say barred but you know
we're not supposed to have any real
contact with County Employees as far as
we can't give them direction we know
that but the climate has been in the
past that you stay away from the you
know the employee is not supposed to
deal with the council members council
members is not supposed to deal with
employees and and you know you talk
about disappointments
um uh The Horizon Zone project in
downtown Salsbury was a big
disappointment for me that's a vote I
guess I can say I lost because um
buildings like the Ross building is
capable of getting not having to pay
property taxes or a great reduced
property tax while everybody else in the
county has to pay the full load um the
other interesting thing we had was
poultry legislation This was
um the environmental Community got fired
up about the poultry houses and um one
of the things that was funny we were
sitting there one day and were trying to
come up with these ideas about what to
do about the poultry houses and I asked
the other council members I said how
many have you ever been on a pcry
farm even even our Planning and Zoning
director at that time had never been on
a po p farm so we set up with um Purdue
and mount air we started doing um field
trips
and all the council members got to go on
these field trips and so it's uh well we
we're going to take a short break uh
we're going to look at some of the parks
in the uh one of the parks in in around
the county when we come back I want to
ask you a little bit more about the
changes that you see as a benefit for
the referendum and also ask you about
the revenue cap and why you feel so
strongly about why that should stay in
in place that's great we'll be right
back thank you
the Solsbury Riverwalk Amphitheater is
located downtown on the city's highly
acclaimed Riverwalk right next door to
the linta hotel the amphitheater is
downtown salsbury's preeminent outdoor
entertainment venue with six rows of
tiered grass-covered seeding arranged in
a semicircular Coliseum style which can
accommodate almost 700 people the stage
area AB buts the river thus providing
Spectators with a backdrop of the Serene
Waters of the South prong of the W
Comico River salsbury's Charming
Riverwalk connects the amphitheater to
the central business district and the
many popular shopping and dining
opportunities available there the
amphithe was originally built to serve
as a permanent music venue for the
national Folk Festival which soulsbury
was honored to host from 2018 to
2022 now that the national Folk Festival
torch has been passed on to its next in
City the tradition continues with the
Maryland Folk Festival held every
September in downtown Solsbury if you've
never attended the Folk Festival you
just don't know what you've been missing
musicians dancers and other artists will
descend on soulsbury to entertain you
for three consecutive days with
traditional music performing arts and
folk life demonstrations from diverse
cultures around the world you'll be able
to enjoy a wide assortment of
traditional American music including
Blue Grass Western swing gospel and New
Orleans Jazz as well as traditional
songs and dances indigenous to Central
and South America Europe Africa Asia and
Beyond you can also watch demonstrations
of traditional folk life skills such as
weaving decoy carving aquaculture crab
picking and so much more the Maryland
Folk Festival is free to all but
donations are always gratefully accepted
to support future festivals the
Riverwalk Amphitheater is the place
where concerts and other entertainment
events of all descriptions will be held
for years to come A Gathering Place for
the people of w Comico County and those
that visit and a place for Happy Times
where many memories are being built and
when the band stop playing the
amphitheater will be a place for quiet
contemplation along the banks of the
South prong of the W Comico River for
more information about the river Walkin
Amphitheater you can visit the soulsbury
Parks and Recreation Committee website
to find out more about the Maryland Folk
Festival visit MD folkfest decom this is
Mike Goldberg for open Agenda back to
you
Joe welcome back to open Agenda I'm your
host Joe White still joined here with
councilman Joe Holloway District Five of
Wako County thanks for staying for
another segment Mr Holloway thank you so
we were talking in the first segment
about some of the surprises and
disappointments that you've seen on on
the County Council I'm interested to
hear just where do you see the future of
the County Council and what what do you
hope the future is I should say
especially as we look to transition back
to a county manage or Council manager
for a government well I think you'll
have a lot more input from seven people
rather than you'll have one person and
that's um that's that's the biggest
change and I think you'll see a lot more
transparency um and I want to make it
clear very clear right now just no
matter what anybody says the County
Council people work more than two days a
month you know so that's uh you mean
it's not just two four hour sessions no
no it's uh you know that that that's
been put out there and that's such you
know such anyway it's I'm not going to
say how I feel about that comment but
it's um we serve on a lot of lot of
different committees
um and spend a lot of time doing Council
work so let's talk a little bit about
transpar transparency especially when it
comes to maybe a subject that has some
very um strong feelings on either side
one of them being the uh the recent
pledge that you voted against um for the
airport to to apply for a grant uh the
pledge from the county was for $50,000
to go towards 200,000 in local funding
at the chance to get an additional
$800,000 in Grants from the federal
government you were you felt very strong
I mean having a chance to sit in the
audience and listen to your comments you
felt very strong that we should not be
as you said uh applying corporate
welfare in this situation I'm really
interested to hear a little bit more
about how you came to those feelings and
why do you feel so strong that well I
I've been I've tried to be real
open-minded about the airport I served
on the airport commission at one time
and that's back when the airport was an
Enterprise fund and there was no County
taxpayers money going to it um and since
that since that's changed you I've try
to be open-minded about it but
um you know we've had
a we've we had we had somebody do this
12 years ago about this new Airline
coming in it didn't work out it reminds
me of something I think I read it in a
reader digest one time this guy asked
his friend he says what do you owe to
your success says I followed my father's
advice he said what's that he said
here's a million dollar son don't lose
it you know and so this is this is more
than a million dollar project when
you're talking or I won't say project um
operation whatever you're talking about
money from the federal government you're
talking about um threee things going to
this Airline from the county um you're
talking about monies from the county um
going into it uh and that's not the end
of it what we appr what they approved
the other day and I voted against it you
know that $50,000 was just a small piece
of that
pie there's an open checkbook on that if
that Airline isn't making it they're
coming back to this County and wanting
more money and we've obligated oursel to
doing that for two years for two years
yeah plus your the the the landing fees
are being wave right and the landing
fees as as you stated go towards
providing fire service yeah so in in
essence we're we're we're going to be
less prepared to offer the the services
that we're supposed to provide by also
having to back up the profitability of
an airline that we actually don't know
the name of at this point correct it may
be great and I think it's a great idea
to have somebody be able to go get on an
airplane and fly to Florida for $89 or
whatever you know but um you know that
and that what you're talking about those
free freebies we're talking about
another what
$225,000 in advertising that we're going
to give them you know there's
some there's a lot to it we've got a lot
we've got a lot of things on our plate
that we're having to pay for um like I
always talk about the pie you know that
we have to cut up for Public Safety you
know Public Works County roads all the
things that's involved and we're dumping
a lot of money into this airport
situation that um I think in the end is
going to come back and um come back and
bite us I know you're a very strong
U defender of the revenue cap uh which
keeps our property taxes as low in this
County as possible and I I believe you
were around when we 20 years ago when we
were having an issue with property taxes
increasing at a inflated rate correct oh
yeah yeah that was before I was on the
council yeah so explain I mean because a
lot of folks may be either forgotten or
maybe they might living here at the time
I mean what was that I think I think I
think the council at that time almost
doubled property taxes in the county I
can't remember the exact numbers it got
people really upset so the revenue cap
uh some folks got together
um it got put on a referendum for
Revenue cap uh it got passed and it was
I mean the bureaucracy and the
politicians that were in there at the
time we super upset about this thing
passing I mean very very upset and it's
kind of interesting because I was asked
to serve on the charter Review Committee
that brought in that brought up the idea
of a county executive and I didn't
realize it at the time but looking back
on it later I found that that's probably
part of the reason they wanted to go to
a a county executive because it's easier
to control one person than it is seven
council members so the revenue cap came
about um now the revenue cap doesn't
keep your taxes from going because
assessments do that so you're going to
if somebody percentage Yeah this the
percentage if you look back you know 20
years ago at your property taxes and
look at them now you're going to find
that they've gone up a lot you know
that's because of Assessments
so we ended up with the revenue
cap then the Big Mo the push came to ask
for County Executive that got put on a
referendum and that passed
every County Executive we've
had has made I'm not sure about the
first one but most of them has said hey
we can work within our Revenue cap but
everyone we get ends up wanting to get
rid of it or to change it um and we've
always had the greater Salsbury
committee there working behind the
scenes some kind of way to get it done
I'm going to tell this a few years ago
the greater Salsbury committee had a um
put a put a group together to study
either getting rid the re Revenue cap or
changing it okay greater Salsbury
committee is made up mostly of
millionaires and multi-millionaires okay
they um they're involved in County
politics a lot so they had this group
put together about either changing the
revenue cap or trying to get rid of it
so we go to this meeting and they one
gentleman stands up and he says we need
to change the revenue cap because if we
have a hurricane tornado or whatever you
know we may need to raise people's
taxes another F gets up no well let me
finish that that part first and so I
asked a question I said so people's
houses get blown down and you want to
raise their property taxes that don't
that don't seem at that time it don't
seem quite right so then this other
gentleman you know he that was in charge
of this committee he was talking I said
let me ask your question at that
time average income in wo count it was
about $3
$35,000 person per person household
income I think was like 75,000 I said
tell me how many people on your
committee was in that income
level and of course he had to shake his
head no none of them so you know the
people that want to get rid of the
revenue cap are the ones that are most
able to probably pay more in property
taxes what what percentage of the county
budget actually comes from the property
taxes because that is a that is
something I've heard you speak about
that there's the the revenue cap only
impacts property taxes property taxes
but that is not where all the budget
money or even the majority comes from no
the
majority I'm not sure just exactly off
the top of my head what the percentage
it is I think I think it's about half
but um a lot of our money comes from
income taxes and and you know that
evolves around jobs you know salary
levels salary levels so so we had a
chance last week to speak with
councilman Jeff Meritt about this being
the the highest budget ever passed but
the I was at the budget meetings the the
the the taxable rate for property taxes
actually went down correct yeah right
would that happen without a revenue cap
no my God let me tell you something if
we had not had that Revenue cap during
the
recession you probably would have been
able afford to live in W Comico County
for one thing we had a we had a u i w
say a pretty Liberal County Executive at
the time you know and like I say every
County Executive we've had including our
current one uh who just tried to bust
the revenue cap by the way of um the um
Annapolis um vote that allows us to bust
it for Education um has been trying to
get rid of the revenue cap if we' not
had the revenue cap when we went through
the Great Recession in 2 was 7 and8 it's
hard to tell where property taxes would
have been different trajectory for the
county for sure that's for sure that's
for sure well Council Holloway thanks
for answering all of my questions uh
we're going to come right back and we're
going to give councilman Holloway his
time at the podium to speak about
anything he'd like thank you we'll be
right
back thanks for joining us for our last
segment councilman Joe Holloway with his
three minutes at the podium a as many
people know uh the council voted to put
um County Executive form of government
on the referendum this fall to change
back to the council form of government
like I made a comment during um our
council
meeting wac Comico County worked for 139
years under the council or commissioner
style of government things were fine
bumps in the road sure no problem um
but it's been an expensive experiment
it really has um the biggest
part two biggest pieces of it I've seen
is the transparency that we've had
between the council and the executive
form of government and the other part is
um how the council members have to
work without having an interaction with
County
Employees that's that that's
that's probably two of the main reasons
you know it's it's things happen that we
don't know about we have lost hundreds
of years of
experience from coun from County
Employees leaving because they're
dissatisfied and we have no we have no
input on that we have no way to know why
um unless one of them happens to call
you and they do but you you're you're
not allowed to to make any um
suggestions you can't get involved
council members can't get involved
misin misinformation has been
a here lately has been one of the
biggest biggest issues um a lot of I
mean there's you know the two day a
month um thing where the council members
only work two days a month you know this
myself I'm on Planning and Zoning I've
been on the airport commission I've been
on the shore up committee uh I've been
on the pack 14 committee uh been on the
school building commission um we take
fun phone calls from citizens on a daily
basis almost we have you know last
Sunday I I was on the phone for probably
five or six hours there was a neighbor
dispute and I was trying to help solve
that you know to try to get things
squared away so it wouldn't escalate
so it's it's been an expens like I say
it's been an expensive experiment
um seven me seven people I think will
have a lot better chance of satisfying
the citizens of Watch Comico County when
it comes to their wants and needs rather
than a county executive who in most
cases is looking at that job as a
stepping stone to a higher office so
that's well well thank you for coming in
thanks for uh meeting with us and
answering all of our questions thanks
for all the hard work you do on the
County Council as well and uh we wish
you well we we'd like to have you back
out and I'll be glad to come all right
not camera shy oh
great thank you for watching our show
join us again next
week we think Mark Caroll is the best
editor ever
