Show Transcript
Disclaimer: The following transcript was auto-generated and may contain spelling or contextual errors.
you're watching open Agenda here's our
host Joe White welcome to open Agenda
I'm your host Joe White in this episode
we're going to have the CEO of Wako
County Habitat for Humanity Molly hilos
on to talk about the affordable housing
some of the challenges that she sees for
both the Aging population and the
younger generations to get into housing
but before that uh joining me in EP in
the studio is uh Dr venosa thanks for
coming out Jeff thank you Joe appreciate
so what an interesting week in the local
politics in W Comico County and really
didn't kind of see this coming yeah uh I
I I think one thing we should talk about
is at the at the CIP meeting last
Wednesday uh or two Wednesdays ago
really uh we did have an interesting
interaction where where our our delegate
Barry beum got up and talked about the
revenue cap and and whether or not
people want to pay more taxes I think
it's just interesting that you know if
you don't pay attention you may not know
what your government's doing right yeah
and and especially because when it's
sort of announced in such a sort of
short-handed way like it was sort of a
throw it seems to me that you could look
at it as a throw a throwaway line and
yet it's not because it's such an
important huge issue I mean so many
people there raised their hand and I'm
not I was thinking do they really know
the raising their hand to raise their
their taxes and uh but you know speaking
of of of spending money uh especially
money that's not planned uh you know at
the last County council meeting on
Tuesday we actually I mean you and I
reviewed the hearings that were coming
up and it didn't seem like a a whole lot
that was of of of major you know
interest but then as we got into the
work session a lot came up is start
starting with the civic center right so
uh you were there for the for the
hearing uh there so basically the Civic
Center is due for a renovation uh
there's a over $5 million coming from an
loan from the federal government or
Grant I should say not a loan yeah uh
but their initial budget was like 6.9
million uh and and the lowest bid so far
is in the the 9.5 9.6 range yeah about
so almost $3 million short um and
they're not able to cover the last $2
million um what do you think about this
I mean well it's it's interesting
because again we understand that when
you know entities whether it's counties
or municipalities are doing these
projects with grant funding you're going
to have cost overruns you're going to
have numbers that don't necessarily
appear as they initially are sort of
framed as what's interesting though is
that the and again this was discussed at
the meeting but apparently the finance
department knew of this back uh in early
October so it was October 11th where
they were made aware that it would be
much higher no discussion no public
notice no transparency it would seem
from the executive office to the council
until much later yeah councilman
Holloway actually brought up feeling
like you know once again we're pinned in
a corner we have to make a decision
right now this is the this is I think
the real broader concern Beyond this
project is that we we have a budget
right supposedly for a reason in the
sense of we set the budget so we know
what we have to spend and what our
priorities are but then we have this
sort of like this rolling admissions
process for spending where you know
every few months we have to move money
out of you know contingency or from the
general fund to to to fulfill these
other things and they're done in a way
where at least I think from our
perspective is you know it sort of pins
you in a corner and says well we have to
do it now otherwise we're going to lose
out on this grant funding or on
something else and if we wait any longer
it's going to cost even more money well
and and you know talk about the CIP I
mean the the the capital Improvement
plan should allow
for more robust knowledge of what the
funding priorities are on the capital
side what cost over runs could happen
and yet we don't see that no and this
the Civic Center in itself is not the
end of the world but at the same time
this is really the third or fourth
example just since this budget was
approved correct in the spring I mean
we're the the fiscal year for the county
just started July 1st right the budget
season just ended six months ago and as
you said at the meeting during your
public comments and other people have
also stated you know we're looking down
the barrel of a really frightening
fiscal Outlook with the state well the
state with the federal government I mean
there there there and and again I think
people need to understand this too
regardless of where your politics are
there's a very open discussion about
massive layoffs of federal workers now
you may not care about that in W Comico
County but as a Maryland taxpayer you
really should be worried about that
because we have a huge Federal Workforce
if we see those kinds of cuts that means
our payroll taxes dramatically drop off
that's going to also affect the budget
Beyond just this coming year so when you
T you know tack on federal policy the
general economic climate the state
budget you know at this point which kind
of like the city of Salsbury it seems
that we just run out of structural
deficit it's sort of designed to be that
way um we're we're looking at some
really unpleasant numbers that I don't
think people are actually really
considering when we have these
discussions about well let's just take 2
million from the reserves now let's take
three here let's take you know however
much money 390,000 just for the library
what's 390,000 between friends yeah yeah
so the last time we really saw some of
the deficits like you're seeing at the
state level the city level was was 20072
2008 right and there was a lot of a lot
of hard decisions that had to be made
and the one thing that the county uh has
in its Advantage right now is a strong
Reserve fund uh how important is this
going to be if there's un unfunded
mandates rolling down from the state
well that's the thing you know you're a
your very robust Reserve fund is only as
robust as what you're willing to put it
toward meaning we could have a lot which
we do but if we're throwing it into
things on an ad hoc basis then when
those other issues come down like for
example the blueprint which is going to
cost money and again that that wasn't a
surprise I mean the expectation was that
counties are going to have to Pony up
more more funding but it seems like
we've never really reconciled with that
reality well we'll take it another step
further if you go back to 2008 uh the
state put on the county funding 50% of
the retirement for the teachers but what
if the blueprint comes back and requires
more teachers but also at the same time
the state takes even more of the funding
percentage away from the retirement
right you're you're talking about an
expense on an expense on an expense well
and you've forgotten one other tidbit
that we kind
of heard and and have talked about too
um our disparity Grant oh it's
definitely councilman Hastings I
intimated that probably half of it will
be cut and of course to the viewers at
home let's remember our County Executive
greater Salsbury committee the Chamber
of Commerce and the council right all
more or less achieved a consensus on the
liquor dispensary reform forms which
have also defunded us to a tune of about
a million a year so we're facing state
cuts we're facing a structural problem
we're also facing at this
point elements of the County government
that are defunding its own budget while
all these other priorities are are
needed I don't think this is a really
good fiscal approach we're we are
teetering on the potential to have a of
a financial disaster there in the future
but the decisions are being made now
right and one of those other ones is
sunsetting the Horizon fund for uh for
the county uh the city would have to
decide on its own but also this still
does leave the the the tax credit for
the Ross building and mentis and and
Nick Simpson uh still in limbo but it
seems like it's starting to to round
into a final decision that will L that
will will lend towards giving them the
property tax credit they'll get their
money I think is is I think what what a
lot of us saw at that last uh work
session at the work session where they
talked about the Horizon fund Council
woman shanie Shields brought up that um
her feelings have have probably changed
she she has said that she's received
phone call from former mayor Jake day um
that would almost likely be putting some
pressure on her to to to do this sure
but uh it sounds like she's gonna change
her vote uh to to to to give the
property tax credit and we're talking
$1.5 million over 10 years right right
yeah- which means of course again money
that theoretically we would have in our
budget or in our reserves or you know in
in a county entity for other things is
now going away under the hope that what
we give them will somehow Foster a kind
of economic development that we don't
know will happen and then we have these
other two you know like you said
structural deficits that we need to to
talk about one is the State of
Maryland's come out and said that
they're not going to have their share of
the money for Fruitland primary M we've
already we've already gone the bond
we're building the school yeah and yet
amazingly chrisfield was funded fully
for a for a building that's almost $40
million right which begs the question
and then this is an honest question but
you know one of the whole discussions
during the campaign about why we should
keep or get rid of a county executive
was that a county executive would would
have the ear of the governor and would
have access and clout to sort of help
um for the interests of the county well
Somerset County doesn't have a county
executive and they manag to get their
funding for their schools fully funded
fully funded and and here we're told
that Fruitland now won't be funded so
either the governor perhaps uh might not
you know think so well of our own
executive system or perhaps um the
system that we have just doesn't
actually get the advantages that uh some
people have argued and and you know that
decision has been made obviously the
election's over but now we have to live
with the consequences well and one of
the other consequences too is uh we have
not actually come up with a a system for
to to to verify what we should do with
the the fire agreement the fire service
agreement for the city and for the
county and yet we've put a lot of time
and effort into this if we're not
careful we're going to find ourselves in
a position where we've written way more
checks than we can we can cash right I I
I would argue we're already there I
think the only thing that hasn't
happened is those those cuts and those
scenarios haven't quite hit us yet but I
think they're boiling we we have time to
act but the time is now right correct
correct we need folks to get more
involved to to come to the County
Council meetings the city council yeah
yeah so yeah absolutely well one of the
things we're going to do is we're going
to have CEO of Wako County Habitat for
Humanity Molly hillas on uh I want to
get her perspective of what is
affordable housing what are some of the
other challenges she's seen in the in
the community but also what kind of
leadership and what kind of planning is
she looking for so that we have a better
future in the next five or 10 years
great so stay with us we'll be right
back with Molly
hos welcome to open Agenda I'm your host
Joe White in the studio with me is Molly
helos uh thank you for joining us you're
welcome thanks for inviting me so you're
the CEO of Habitat for Humanity for w
Comico county is that correct that's
correct how long have you been doing
this I'm about to have my 10th year
anniversary so February marks 10 years
and I've never been happier so it's it's
like a dream come true to just like wake
up every morning and serve others I love
it and make a difference well
congratulations on on coming up on the
10y year anniversary yeah thank you so
could you explain to me just a little
bit about what Habitat for Humanity's
role is in W Comico County and some of
the ch Es as you see uh our communities
facing now sure so historically people
know of us as um a a builder that uses
volunteers to help low-income families
become first-time home buyers and that
has been a big part of what we do
obviously um we've helped 91 families oh
wow since 1987 and that's we've we've
transformed lives like without a doubt
the other part of what we do which has
really grown and and um you know I will
Pat myself and my team on the back for
this we have really steamrolled into
doing critical home repairs okay for
older adults it's important as we're you
know as we age we need home
modifications like a walk-in shower or
grab bars
or um even you know kitchen remodels to
to
bring the um
appliances down you know I mean people
that as a as as you age your abilities
change so in one way you're helping
people get in a home in some other ways
you may be helping them stay in their
home right without a doubt and so we've
helped 126 families just since 2013 okay
to age in place so this is a obviously
some initiative that you and your team
have really pushed forward in the last
10 years oh for sure for sure I mean it
was it
was um we would we started just starting
getting these calls like hey you know
some some in some points it was ches be
housing Mission saying hey we'll do the
ramp but you know this family needs a
new roof or they need they need a a
walk-in shower they need things that we
don't
do and when we started reaching out to
um W Comico county has a a planning and
zoning department and and they they just
didn't have the resources the state of
Maryland has a special loans program for
critical home repairs okay but it's
grossly
underfunded and so we were just we just
kept running into roadblocks and then as
we would try to help people um get
connected to those
resources then there were even more
roadblocks to families to get to get
access and so now do you spend time
trying to help families apply for those
loans or do you're like you know what
it's just easier if we we do it this way
and stay in our own organization so it's
it's yes yes and yes okay um the first
thing we do is we figure out does this
does this family qualify for you know
which programs do we think that they
might qualify for that might be based on
their income if they're a
veteran um if the property is outside of
the city limits but it's also in a rural
area so there's a program called
USDA and they have a 504 loan and grant
program okay so if the family lives in
that area okay and they own the home and
the
property um has
Insurance um that and that's just the
beginning so like if it if the
property's in a flood zone and they
don't have flood insurance then they
don't qualify it's like all these
knockout factors okay for families so we
we what we did was we said
okay what can we do
to connect them to the existing
resources first if that doesn't work
then we need more flexible financing to
offer them and so we started raising
money and applying for Grants and we're
in our this year I think it's our fifth
year of
receiving
um the rural Maryland Council riiff
funding we've used it for different
things we've used it for Workforce
Development but we've used it for aging
and place modifications we leverage
Resources with other entities like tital
Health um John Hopkins is partnering
with us now so we Cobble together all
these resources to try to help the
families well sometimes at County
Council meetings I've I've heard them
bring up resolutions to move funds into
different um uh Grant programs that are
I guess designed for uh helping folks
make repairs critical repairs is that a
program are those types of programs part
what your part they so it depends um the
the Community Development block grant
that is that typically is about 700,000
every two years that flows from HUD to
the state and then to the county and the
county administers that money they've
earmarked that funding over the years
for either down payment assistance
through Salsbury Neighborhood Housing or
through their own home repair program um
they can only serve about 25 families a
year with without funding um our waiting
list right now is 140 families oh wow so
like if if somehow somebody could stroke
a check for 2.4 million we could
probably put a new roof on all those
families homes so if folks have more
questions like they think maybe you know
their parent who's maybe getting older
would qualify how would they reach your
organization what's the best way um they
could I would encourage them to first
start at our website and just learn a
little bit more and that's why Comico
habitat.org okay um the second would be
to call our office
410546 15
51 and our intake coordinator will take
all their
information and connect them immediately
to one of our processors so being a part
of this process what do
you someone with your area of expertise
what do you think are some of the bigger
challenges that we Face the community
for the next five or 10 years if we're
making a plan so right now like what
we're seeing um some of the biggest
challenges are we're you know we're
about to to to offer a loan to a a
family um usually it's anywhere from
between 10 and
20,000 and then all of a sudden their
septic goes out okay
and we don't have those kind of funds
okay because you're talking 20 or 30,000
40,000 like we have we had one client
where we we worked with the health
department and and he ended up getting a
new septic new drain field and septic
and all that it was 40,000 wow so we
were lucky we had a donor who said I
have all this money I only want it to go
to Vietnam veterans that need home
repairs and we were like okay we've got
plenty of those I mean we literally have
like 50 some families that are veterans
so it was it was a matter of were you
you know giving them a call were you in
the Vietnam War can you send over that
DD214 I need to verify that you were
served in the Vietnam War and then oh
hey guess what we have some money that
we can help you well they were very
lucky to have someone like you who could
cut through maybe not even red tape but
those types of hurdles that you need to
check all those boxes off it's a lot
it's a lot so I've had my mortgage
license since oh my gosh since hurricane
Katrina it was like what
2005 um so I've been helping families
get back into houses or become
homeowners for a very long time I took a
Hiatus um in between living in
Mississippi to moving back here and um
did a couple other things own my own
business and and um so I have a
different
my background is so well suited to
running this operation and and growing
it you have ai unique perspective and a
set of expertises that I think maybe
with absolutely I did VA loans I did FHA
Loans I did USDA loans I did no do loans
back in the day I did I saw everything
and I was a part of um you know all the
transitions with mortgage regulation and
and making sure that the loans that are
offered are the right um loans for
families that they that they can afford
well I I wanted to also spend some time
in in another segment if you'd stick
around talking about uh one of the the
rhetorical questions that's come up is
what is affordable housing in this area
uh we also have a Planning and Zoning
meeting actually scheduled for later
today uh which is a combination of city
of Salsbury and the W Comico County to
talk about density down in the downtown
if you'd stick around I'd like to just
talk about how you feel like some of
those policies play into what becomes
affordable housing absolutely so stay
with us for another segment as we ask
some more questions with CEO Molly hos
from the Habitat for Humanity just about
the Planning and Zoning meeting density
and affordable housing in Wako
County welcome back to open Agenda I'm
your host Joe White
sticking around for another segment is
Molly hos from Wako County Habitat for
Humanity than thanks for having me oh
it's been a pleasure thanks for spend
some time talking about yeah I have I
have a lot to say so you know invite me
back anytime I most certainly I could
already tell that's going to be a good
idea so we we have a planning zoning
meeting later today and it's a
combination of city of Salsbury W Comer
County it's probably the one area where
the the two entities really kind of
cross yeah I you know what what's really
um interesting you may not realize this
that so with habitat we've been building
houses but we haven't built like a whole
subdivision in a very long time so I
haven't had to interact with Planning
and Zoning um you know we just you know
work with the architect we get the plans
done we go to the
city um we get we get the permits yada
yada you know we build the house it's um
inspected it meets all the code but now
that
um now that I'm getting more involved in
advocacy I'm learning more about how the
whole process works and the fact that we
don't have enough affordable housing
here I mean it's not just affordable for
low low to moderate income families
because what most people don't realize
is that we're Ser like the next family
that we're serving with home ownership
she works at the health department okay
I mean these are not these are
professionals professionals they just
happen to um have large families and
they meet the income limits you know but
they have to they have to pay their rent
on time and they have to show we have to
have proof that they've paid their rent
on time no lates for the last two years
have workable credit um the ability to
save at least $2,400 have have at least
$1,000 in the bank settlement I mean
these are legitimate loans that they're
paying back NOP there's no handout here
no and actually they have to do a lot of
the work they have to do a lot of the
work and one of the one of the biggest
problems I mean we have oh my gosh any
given year probably 150 people applying
to become homeowners and we only have
like five homes that we're going to sell
yeah so I mean let me ask you a question
if someone does qualify and obviously
there's there's a lot to that but what
would the expectation what's the normal
mortgage payment a month that someone
like that is going to have I mean a
range not specific so it really depends
on their income so it would be no more
than 30% of their gross income before
taxes gross monthly so you figure and
that's pretty normal even for a bank too
right in a way because mean if you go
get a bank loan they're going to want
your debt to income ratio to be maybe
not as maybe 32 or 33 but they're
they're looking at the same thing yeah
so that so our we like our our top ratio
so the housing ratio to be between 25
and 30% no more than 30% and then the
back ratio which is total debt income no
more than 41% okay so the biggest
problem that we have when people apply
is that
11% right between your your housing and
your Deb to income is not a lot of money
no so and when when people can go you
know they get a car loan what's the
average car loan these days like it's
like I'll tell you it's like $700 $800 a
month yeah which is significant which
that that kicks them out they're no
longer eligible to become a homeowner
anywhere like it's not just us it's even
with lenders well one of the arguments
that's being made to to increase the the
density downtown is for affordable
housing but uh historically we're
looking at apartments that are between
$2,000 $2,400 or even more $2,800 right
is that in the same
yeah same breath as what is affordable
housing so that what they're proposing
to build downtown they they're calling
it luxury based on what I'm seeing it's
really market rate okay
um what ends up happening the more
Supply that's built than those that do
have the ability to move up to more
amenity to better
amenities um you know more access to you
know restaurants and um you know what
whatnot you know I mean it when you want
when when you have the ability to pay
more for what you want you're going to
move there okay so that's going to open
up properties that you know they out
yeah that they moved out of that are
older that you know may not be as more
as energy
efficient um all here's a good example
so we just renovated our our new offices
in Fruitland right 8,000 square foot
half is our office the other half is a
second restore when we bought that
building a couple years ago the monthly
utilities were running about 4 to 5,000
okay right for electric only yeah that's
it yeah we totally rehab that building I
just wrote a check to Del Marva power
for
$535 okay for last
month that's Energy Efficiency that's
what happens when you renovate and you
are building to code and it's the the
building is tight and you know you're
not not you know you're not your money's
not like flying out the cracks of the of
the building but you would also I mean
you're and and obviously supplying
demand can really drive the market and
if we're if we're able to build uh
responsibly new apartments somewhere in
the area it would allow for there to be
more Supply but you are talking about
some lower income families moving into
less efficient apartments that is going
to take
some uh some of their finance and tie
that up uh but I'm also curious too like
as much you've Al we've also got an
overcrowding situation right now so the
Board of Ed um Dr mic staer shared with
me that one out of every 10 students is
housing insecure they're they're called
fit families in transition but they
don't have a permanent address okay so
we already have overcrowding situation
happening so if if the if the density is
increased um and and we build more
houses which would help with the on the
supply side but we don't have some of
the other resources infrastructure it
could be parking that's been a a popular
hot button but it also could be schools
do we run the risk of maybe having some
other issues if we haven't considered
the plan
holistically I think that this is a
very difficult topic um housing though
shouldn't be politicized because people
need housing no matter what income
bracket you're in um you know if you're
if you're looking to buy a house for you
and your family or you have a young
family and you can't find what you're
looking for that's a problem yeah
um the we need more Supply so I I've sat
i' I sit I have sat on at least four
different housing task forces in the
last six months between rural Maryland
Council the city of Salsbury had a um it
wasn't a task force it was more of like
a housing action
committee um greater Salsbury
committee and
NAACP asked me to be on their housing
task force I mean so the issue
is it it's it's not it should not be
politicized it's about how do we build
more supply of the new and how do we
preserve what we have so what would you
say to folks out there watching who who
aren't political just like you said you
know maybe this should not be
politicized but they but they want to
see an action plan H how do you think
they should become involved in order to
make sure that the Next Generation has
housing to buy and also the older
generation has housing to live in I mean
they they can get involved um they can
get involved whether it's the NAACP
whether it's um Salsbury university has
has surveys and programs through the
pace
organization um they can get involved at
habitat on our family selection
committee they can learn more that way
um they can go to County Council City
Council meetings they could go onto the
city website and read the impediments to
fair housing Choice document that the
city paid for and when that outlines
that came
out um um over a year ago okay and so it
outlines the shortage of housing it
outlines how it it create it created a
strategic plan of what the city should
be doing to address the housing issues
okay um and so my question and I've
asked this to the city is okay you've
got this plan you paid Consultants to
create this what are you going to do
yeah like what's Mo what do you see as
more most important I have I know what I
see is most important and I I've already
I already met with the mayor when he was
first elected you know almost was I
think I met with him maybe in January
February and
um and I said the preservation of
existing homes is so important for us to
keep the housing stock we have um and I
was urging him to create you know a pot
of money that we could make that happen
together with Salsbury Neighborhood
Housing because they also have a program
um and that hasn't hap unfortunately
that hasn't happened yet but I'm hopeful
okay and there are other strategic
initiatives in that plan it's the like I
said the impediments to fair housing
choice there's also another document
that the city paid for that um that
they're required to produce it's a it's
a comprehensive action plan that's all
related to housing I mean this is like a
300 page document okay and um that's a
lot to read
it is a lot it's a lot but the but it's
it's such a large Continuum whether you
know from folks that are homeless you
know to folks that are older and want to
downsize and want to sell that big house
in ndale but they have no place to go
well one of the things we're hoping with
our show and and maybe you would come
back and be a part of this with us
because I know you have lots more you'd
love to talk about but let's let's let's
see how the Planning and Zoning meeting
goes and let's give them a few months
and then would you check back in with us
and let's just really see is there some
action to the action plan is there some
strategic motivation to the Strategic
plan yes rather than just producing
documents with no action exactly exactly
and then the other the other thing that
kind of just like I just scratch my head
about this is the you know especially
with the dens of the text Amendment um
is that for decades Community leaders
have been trying to make change positive
changes downtown and finally there's a
developer willing to invest and now all
of a sudden
like like how is that possible how's it
possible that from 1965 to now all these
meetings all these smart people saying
we need this we need this and now
finally someone's got the money
you know and then they're like oh we
changed our mind okay it just doesn't
I'm just like I just need to I just
would like to understand that because
I'm a city resident and I would like to
understand how that could happen well
what I'm going to ask you is will you
come back in with us maybe shortly after
the new year and let's let's do a review
of what got what was passed at the
planning and zoning and how has the
county and City taken some of those
steps since then and uh let's keep
people informed and and also continue to
encourage them to get involved
themselves would you be willing to do
that I would be I would love that I
would also love to hear you interview
some other people about housing and hear
what they have to say and you know where
they think there should be some Focus
well and we have it we've we've we have
interviewed like shanie Shields Council
woman from district one uh and you know
trying to find that leadership uh you
know you're talking about uh City
Council County Council or county
executive and then Community leaders
like yourself we're we're looking for as
as a population we need to be looking
for some leadership some direction um
and maybe you know that holistic plan
that would cover both the supply the
infrastructure the education part so
look forward to having you back on okay
yeah well thanks for joining us for this
episode of open Agenda we'll be back
next week with another new episode
I know what I'm doing man
