Open Agenda Episode 27
Show Transcript
Disclaimer: The following transcript was auto-generated and may contain spelling or contextual errors.
you're watching open Agenda here's our
host Joe White welcome to open Agenda
I'm your host Joe White and in the
studio with me today is our executive
producer Dr Joe venosa thanks for coming
out thank you Joe how' exams go uh for
who oh yeah yeah maybe not so well for
few you know what like in like in life
some winners some losers and a whole
bunch of people in the middle well uh
you talk about Winners losers and people
in the middle uh we we do have a few
things to go over today this is our last
episode that were scheduled before the
end of the year and uh I'd like to
discuss the city council meeting from
this past Monday sure the County council
meeting from this past Tuesday and talk
a little bit about both planning and
zoning and maybe what you and I hope to
see in 2025 yeah then we got to end on a
positive note right always so uh the
city council had a meeting on on Monday
December 15th this was a six o'clock
meeting or did they move this one up did
they had a work session at 4:30 and then
they went into a legislative session at
6 so it was it sort of flowed into it so
why did they do that why did they have
to have a work session and a legislative
session what was the point well the
official reason was that the primary
focus was on this new ordinance that
they're that they did their first
reading on uh for the latter meeting
which was essentially to um make the
density change so the work session
addressed that okay and then they went
from there into the regularly scheduled
meeting so they could get through the
first reading because there's going to
have to be a second reading right yeah
the second reading will be I believe on
January 16th of next year so I mean is
this is this process feeling rushed and
maybe predetermined I think so I think a
lot of people feel that way at least if
if you're on sort of our side of it
which is the skeptical side of it again
not not against density per se but
against this particular ordinance well
let's dive into that a little bit
because I mean I and I I agree with you
I think sometimes we almost get painted
as if we're being negative yeah but you
know for instance the the the new
development they're going to have over
by the hospital they have their own
parking are you I mean are you are you
comfortable with that I think it's great
yeah because it's planned okay I mean
from Soup To Nuts plan from Soup To Nuts
plan right right so what's different
about this plan with the
U forgive me but the but the exact word
like the town Town Center Apartments
yeah so and again this is a outgrowth of
the efforts that were successful this
time from uh um the developer and their
supporters through the planning and
zoning committee in which last month if
you recall uh they successfully got the
committee to change the zoning so what
that triggered is now this bill coming
out of the city to use that green light
to push forward legislation to get the
project um developed and not only that
lot but other Lots in the city as as
well now these are the parking lots that
were condemned sold office plus from the
previous mayor jig Day to a friend a
developer Brad Gillis right y exactly so
at the and we talked about the November
uh hearing with the planning zoning and
we had mayor Taylor in two weeks ago I
want to I want to discuss a little bit
about specifically what he said and
maybe where we're at in this process
sure sure he brought up that you know at
at the same time we're giving up assets
of the Town we're we're building
something that we don't the traffic
study was done by the developer the not
really a parking study per se at least
not a reliable one no and yet we're also
giving up the tax base from this new
development yeah but can you explain in
layman's terms like like why is that
such a concern cuz I agree but I yeah
and let's again if you're living in the
city or even in the county let's think
of it in sort of this way uh density
issues is not you know the most sort of
sexy term for these kinds of uh voter
issues right like when you think about
elections and when you think about City
politics or Municipal politics you don't
think of density or zoning as like a hot
button issue really but it has some of
the biggest implications because this is
essentially what it means by creating
these particular density changes and
allowing this project to go forward with
all these various tax subsidies and
incentives it basically is putting
millions of dollars that the city would
otherwise have for services for
Community Resources for affordability
issues among existing residents and it's
giving millions of dollars to an already
wealthy development company to
theoretically promote luxury housing in
downtown Salisbury without the necessary
parking that might be needed without an
understanding of what it's going to do
to the actual you know environmental
impacts on city services on the
environment on sewage storm water stuff
and so what you're really seeing is in
this case the city government giving a
leg up to one particular project at the
expense of all of us people in the
middle so to speak yeah yeah the the the
regular Joe's yeah yeah so now when you
when you talk about the the the tax
subsidy I thought mayor Taylor a couple
weeks ago had a had a he made a nice
correlation using some simple math and
his statement was the city has to just
to give a a 2% cost of living adjustment
to the to the employees they have needs
to come up with
$750,000 in order to have $750,000 they
need 75 million in new taxable base to
get there yes but because this Project's
coming online with the tax the property
tax subsidy for up to it doesn't
completely clear out for 20 years right
it's like hey we have a new thing to
take care of and we have no new funds to
cover it well you're actually not only
that you're actually defunding yourself
yeah right that's what you're saying
because you're adding more requirements
as you said more responsibilities more
needs for service but you're taking away
the mechanism to actually sustain those
things well and you you you you spoke
about it for a minute but the big anchor
around our our neck uh especially city
taxpayers is the parking because the
facet of this parking garage now who
gets to build the parking
garage the developer right but who pays
for the parking garage is it is it is it
the city taxpayers Yours Truly okay yeah
and then who's going to maintain the
parking garage yeah well here here's my
last question who gets to park in the
parking garage yeah because I mean the
city taxpayers paid for it so if I if I
want to go downtown to a bar and have
you know meet a meet you we're just
going to have a a watermelon Seltzer
right yeah always yeah and and so we're
going to meet downtown are we are we
going to be allowed to park in this
garage maybe we can get a special note
from Mr Gillis but I don't believe so
and again and again the fact that there
these questions are not even really
formulated or excuse me the fact that
these issues aren't really formulated at
this stage is very disconcerning because
it implies that this whole project is
being rushed it's I mean even with this
last session you had the work session
and then it went right into the
legislative session so no gaps no time
for Community input to absorb it
certainly no publicity about it it's
almost as if if you were an outsider
looking in it's almost as if there are
elements in City government who are
doing the bidding of certain developers
on these projects rather than answering
to the actual common citizens well let's
let's talk about the you know the
accountability answering to the citizens
this this whole density you know
increasing density by by twice going
from 40 to 80 units an acre it goes
against the city staff the did report
correct yeah this is what's amazing to
me and I've had several uh sources from
the city explain this but what what they
feel very slighted by is the fact that
it's the city staff's job all right
these are the actual bureaucratic people
who are hired because of their expertise
and skill they develop the report
expressing the concerns about what this
project would do it was completely
overlooked by most of the city council
not even addressed at the meeting not
even commented on not any given not
given any real serious questions it was
as almost if you could have the
developer uh make a promise and then you
have on the other hand the actual
dedicated staff who are doing the actual
work
and they're just completely marginalized
and ignored well and you know you you're
talking about you know the did report
they just ignored it but also at the
Monday city council hearing it was
brought up from the Planning and Zoning
representative that that increasing the
density from 40 units an acre to 80 is
in the comprehensive plan yeah but we
understand that to not be true that was
a
misstatement yeah maybe a misstatement
or maybe a lie misstatement depending I
do want to make a point too because I
believe it was Mr Daniel Moreno Holt who
was on Planning and Zoning who spoke and
he also made the comment in his public
comments again he was speaking as he
said as a private citizen but he of
course uh is on planning and zoning and
he was also on the greater Salsbury
committee which you can make the
argument maybe you should have recused
yourself uh from that conflict of
interest but he made the point that
other municipalities do this exact same
thing and that also is not true because
if you take a look at what the density
changes have happened in other
municipalities like Frederick and
elsewhere there are substantial
differences and not only how they're
funded but in how they correspond to
these concerns about um resource
allocation about storm water impact and
all these things they would at least at
the very least make them have enough
parking correct so we're not even doing
that so it's apples and oranges right
yep well um I I want to take a break and
when we come back I want to discuss the
County council meeting from the very
next day on Tuesday December 16th can
you stick around absolutely all right
when we come back we're going to go over
the result from the County council
meeting on December 16th we'll be right
back welcome back to open Agenda I'm
your host Joe White in the studio with
me still is Dr venosa Joe thanks for
sticking around no problem Joe so uh I
want to talk about the County council
meeting on Tuesday uh now they are
starting to get to the end of the year
uh wrapping up now it's not the end of
their fiscal year but the end of the
calendar year and uh we get a three-week
break before they come back um for their
next meeting in January
uh one of the they had a public hearing
one of the biggest topics was this
public hearing about uh chapter 99 which
is like County vehicles putting make
sure all the County vehicles are marked
and they know which departments yeah uh
you know I was at this at this meeting
and you and I actually spoke at the
public or the public hearing part of
this one as well uh really they've been
working on this they've attempted to
work on this with the county Executives
office for just about a year their first
work session with the executive was a
year ago uh we still don't have it in
the uh manual and I think that's what
the executive's office would would
prefer but uh at the end of the day it's
up to them to pass legislation to make
this you knowed right yep so uh if this
is passed uh there will be actually uh a
system in place to account for which
departments have which vehicles a little
bit of transparency maybe move in the
right direction the right direction I
mean the execution still has to happen
correct and we're seeing some of that
even now we don't have the audit from
the
2024 year that just wrapped up in June
30th of earlier this year so we don't we
don't really know but this is this makes
it a legal document uh for
that uh they also spent a lot of time in
their work session almost preparing the
public for some of the
legislative uh priorities for our
delegation so our delegations like
Senator Mary Beth carosa Johnny Mountz
uh delegate Chris Adams and newly
appointed delegate Barry beum so they
represent parts or sh sample use as well
oh I'm sorry yeah sh sample Hugh too
yeah uh so they represent our County at
in in Anapolis among other counties too
yep so if we want to pass legislation
like like last year they passed uh to to
eliminate the Monopoly for the for the
liquor dispensary and allow restaurants
and bars to order directly from the
distributor Distributors it takes a
legislative action right yes so I think
the one of the frustrating things here
is this is the opposite of transparency
like so a year ago we were told you know
we're going to change this one word from
sh to May and this is the liquor you
know this this is a liquor bill we want
um then we saw July 1st former delegate
Carl anderton said okay now we've opened
the door he might as well walk through I
I can see there's three more bills and
they're trying to walk through right
here it comes yeah yeah um nothing's
going to happen overnight you know these
bills these legislative uh requests have
to go to Napolis yeah and I thought and
I think too you need to put it in the
context of what our state is going to be
facing in Anapolis as priorities to get
through yeah um it's safe to say that
the future of w Comico alcohol
dispensaries and liquor licenses is
probably going to be fairly low compared
to the state issues that they're dealing
with right now and are going to be
dealing with well no I agree with you
but I do want to mention you know one of
the one of the parts one of the one of
the legislative agendas the county
executive has put out there is to give
local control on deciding how many
liquor licenses you can have for package
stores yeah uh and and a year ago we
were told that this wasn't going to be a
priority but we knew that it wasn't
going to be the case so so we're
starting to see it now correct I think
it's telling though that this is the
priority when faced with all the other
fiscal political challeng es that we are
going to be dealing with anyway because
of the state well let's talk about those
because that's exactly why I think this
this actually goes to show that maybe
our priorities when we're when we're
going to County Council meetings I think
that some of their priorities are just a
skew yeah uh definitely believe that
County Executives worried about things
that are going to impact the middle less
than oh yeah just a few folks sure so
let's talk about the state is is already
set to see a 2.75 billion actually it's
been readjusted upwards of another 300
million so we're looking at A3 billion
doll structural deficit right now so is
this just a onee thing it will be
projected out to upwards of 6 billion by
2030 is the prediction that's again
right now where it stands so why would a
a County resident really why would they
need to pay attention to this I mean
what what's your thoughts because this
is this is going to impact them first
and for oh sure sure well again there's
a lot of reasons why um obviously State
budgets matter for counties because
counties are the recipients of what the
state is able to give so for example if
we're in a in a big fiscal crisis which
we clearly are that's going to impact
all sorts of things including for
example how much we'll get in our
disparity Grant uh which could mean
severe cuts to the sources of funding
that we are used to um you know there's
a big theory that that some council
members have entertained is that a good
chunk of why we've had such good
reserves is because we've just been able
to accumulate the disparity grant
funding we haven't needed to spend it we
haven't needed to spend it um and and
guess what now you know rainy day is
coming and we're going to have less
umbrellas so to speak well so one one of
those you know downpours is going to be
the Fruitland Primary School yeah I mean
we were now this came out on the news
five weeks ago but this was this meeting
was the first time I heard the County
Council address it yeah uh through Pam
Oland the the uh finance officer for the
county executive's office but now the
state of Maryland is saying we're going
to have to forward fund the 21 million
or most of the 20 27 million and we we
thought we were actually forward funding
like six of it for right now so we're on
the hook until the state of Marland
decides that they can have it we don't
know when that's going to be right we
don't know um and again it's interesting
that that project for us was announced
as a as a cut and yet other school
projects in the area like in Somerset
County and chrisfield were not not
touched yeah it is really hard to
understand uh I mean the executive has
said uh through the election season how
much of a close tie she has with
Governor West Moore she had posters up
and and and photo ops with him well look
I'm I'm a bureaucrat myself in certain
ways and we're used to the old
expression do more with less no pun
intended but yeah here here's where we
are because the the argument as you just
said of having an executive system is
you have these connections to the ex I
office supposedly former delegate
anderton is is helping with rural
Economic Development um it's going to
not help rural Economic Development when
you're not able to fund and invest in a
desperately needed Primary School well
let me ask you a question any I mean
okay you're you're in the University
system any of the folks that told you to
do less with more did you get a um a
poster of your S standing next to him is
that was that something you did no but
but to be fair I don't want to threat
any football with them I I did not and
I'm not a Ravens fan to be fair but no
that has not happened under my uh
experience when do you think the public
is when at what point will the public
notice that some of these problems that
we're trying to raise attention to will
actually hit them where would it come I
think spring is when you're really going
to feel it in part because that's when
the legislative session wraps up and
that's when the decisions on on all
sorts of things regarding daily life
will be announced and then slowly
impacted because
I think with pretty good certainty
you're going to have to close that
budget Gap with a combination of raising
certain taxes and cuts right that's
that's how it happens that's probably
the middle ground if you will to close
that Gap well and one of the ways the
state can cut is just to stop funding
some of the mandates they've sent down
to the counties whether it's teacher
pensions or uh disparity grants and that
sort of thing so it's not as if
Maryland's going to call up us and just
say call up like county and say raise
your taxes they're just going to say
well you're going to get the same amount
but you're also going to have to pay for
more of your own stuff do more less do
more with less we're GNA get you that
poster
Joe uh talking about uh just to to to
kind of to put a bow on that yeah the
CIP was the the the capital Improvement
plan was submitted now no one had a
chance to look at over it was actually
it was the deadline was Tuesday to
submit it but they just talking about
the budget they've actually said they're
going to table really a lot of the
discussion with that until they get the
the operating budget proposal so that
might even be your first sense of hey we
actually don't know how much we have to
spend now these are projects whether
we're talking about you know replacing
roads or uh putting on roofs of the
Civic Center or building schools yeah
but you're already starting to see like
the CIP instead of being discussed in
January and February as normal it's
actually probably going to get kicked
down the road until the operating budget
proposals come out they can see the
storm clouds coming and I think this
comes back to us as regular citizens
is when are we going to find out what
those changes will be fiscally and how
will it really impact us on a day-to-day
level well there was one other part that
came up in the work session it's a
little bit unrelated but we've covered
it is is about the Ross so uh the the
County council did vote to allow the
Ross to to have their tax subsidy from
the county side yes and that was uh that
was just passed it as a resolution as a
resolution this still does go to the
county executive and at the December 3rd
meeting both her attorney the county
attorney Paul Wilbur and the council's
attorney Bob Benson both said that she
would need to sign it but she brought it
back up this past Tuesday yeah that she
in fact does not I mean what's your take
on this well would almost seem like a
politician's move um her argument at
that session was because in her view
again not her LA's view but in her view
that she wouldn't have to sign it
because as a resolution the council's
approval is the only thing that matters
now I believe she will sign that in
secret yeah and I believe that she will
help guarantee several million dollars
of your money and our money to those
developers well and maybe not even in
secret but just on a slow news day on a
slow news day yeah where maybe no one's
paying atten Thursday at 4:30 I I will
promise you we we're going to keep an
eye on this I I'm not sure just how like
it's not like a bill signing no but uh
but we we we we'll keep on top of it and
I and I am going to be curious once we
get the finance reports you know in
later months about contributions I am
curious if any developers will show up
in certain local elected officials
reports we've actually already seen that
with St John properties and she touted
that and she did tout that go figure I
mean when when we covered uh the the
campaign Finance back in October um I
mean they were a new and maxed out
contributor so you know the these are
definitely things that are worth keeping
an eye on maybe maybe there's is as
innocent as anything but that doesn't
seem as likely as so uh I do want to
planning zoning actually has a has a
meeting this week this Thursday when we
come back I'd like to uh talk a little
bit about what they're actually going to
cover and talk a little bit about uh
2025 stick around one more segment yes
sir when we come back we're going to
discuss a little bit more about the
Planning and Zoning meeting that is
happening this week following the county
and City Council meetings as well as
what a little bit Dr venos and I would
like to see coming in 2025 so stay with
us we'll be right
back Nanticoke Harbor is located on the
Nanticoke River about 20 mi west of
Solsbury this facility has two concrete
boat ramps 68 boat slips and abundant
trailer parking year round seasonal and
daily boat slip rentals are available
you'll also find a picnic area and
Pavilion offer offering amazing views of
the harbor entrance and River a small
Beach area and good fishing Nanticoke
Harbor is situated almost right next
door to the popular roaring Point Park
which makes it a convenient place to
launch your boat to spend the day at the
beach a variety of commercial workboats
are docked in the harbor which ply the
Nanticoke River for oysters crabs and
fish opposite the boat ramp you'll
notice several small buildings which in
days gone by were part of the HB kener
in Sun's seafood processing facility
founded in 1935 HB kenerly was once W
Comico County's largest employer
building its business on processing the
oysters that were once so abundant in
the ntico river they also processed
breaded squid and clam strips as well as
tuna delivered on ships from South
America oysters Were King on this part
of the Nanticoke River until the mid1
1980s when two oyster diseases known as
MSX and dermo decimated oyster
populations throughout the Chesapeake
Bay sadly after 50 years in business the
kerle had to close the plants doors
because so few oysters remained however
they left behind a legacy of oyster
farming which they had pioneered years
before and has since been revived you'll
know the several large plastic tanks at
the wers edge in the harbor which are
used for growing juvenile oysters known
as spat the tanks are first filled with
cleaned oyster shells which are immersed
in a constant flow of water pumped out
of the harbor then a muddy mass of
microscopic oyster larvae is placed into
the tank after a short while the oyster
larvae attach themselves to the clean
shells and they begin to grow the oyster
shells peppered with spat are purchased
by watermen who then plant them on
leased beds out in the river where they
can grow to Market size after a year or
two the mature oysters are harvested and
returned once again to natico Harbor
where they're offloaded and shipped by
truck to processing and distribution
facilities on any given day you'll see
oyster dredging and tonging boats go in
and out of the harbor as they pursue
their daily tasks of planting and
harvesting oysters thankfully the oyster
population in the Nanticoke River is
rebounding and with good stewardship
combined with modern oyster farming
techniques it is our hope that
Maryland's ancient tradition of seafood
Harvest
will forever remain a part of what
defines y Comico County additional
information about Nanticoke Harbor and
boatslip rentals is available on the W
Comico County Department of recreation
parks and tourism website this is Mike
Goldberg for open Agenda back to you
Joe welcome back to open Agenda still in
the studio with me is is Joe thanks for
sticking around Joe thank you Joe so uh
plan and Zoning has a meeting this week
as well
and uh and we don't know the results of
it yet but just to Circle back one of
the things we do know is uh uh the the
city Staff office uh probably through
mayor Taylor has asked the planing
zoning to reinstate the parking rules
that were T eliminated in 2018 and I
think this is probably in response to
the potential for the density uh
doubling of the density I think so yeah
when when mayor Taylor was on the show
last week or two weeks ago he actually
spoke about how he's very actually very
excited for the new uh development over
by the hospital that actually had to get
an exemption from the uh from a
different group to to go over the
density but they they came to it with
their own parking yes uh so you know
they're kind of they figured out their
own problems over there they planned
they planned but this is basically uh an
attempt to put that planning process
back in place for the city as a whole
it's a corrective to mitigate some of
the issues that have come up I think
yeah I think you mentioned earlier off
camera that uh the city staff is pretty
frustrated they don't feel like they're
being listened to yeah there's and again
this is common in a lot of
municipalities where you have people who
are you know the genuine experts on
things and it's their job to do these
kinds of reports and to do the analysis
and then if you're a politician or an
elected official who has your own agenda
your own view your own
bias you can dismiss that in ways
unfortunately that not only is it an
issue for morale and you know speaking
as a city resident it's quite well known
that we have a lot of vacancies and
issues within the city regarding keeping
people yeah and so I think these kinds
of moments where that did report was
basically just thrown to the side by
much of the city council I think that
doesn't help well in the plan deserting
committee too oh absolutely well and and
you know again I think when we when we
talk about the fact that you have people
whose job it is to do this versus people
whose job it is to vote you at least owe
an explanation yeah and and and and
we're not seeing that right now no the
The Proposal is to require one parking
space for the first bedroom and an
apartment and a half a parking space for
every bedroom above that so if you have
a a a three-bedroom apartment
theoretically it would be two parking
spaces so something reasonable and I
think if any of us were living in three
bedroom dwelling we would want to have
space for at least two spots I know my
wife and I would sure sure so we're
about to wrap up 2024 yeah um I think
we've worked very hard on a lot of
things what a year what yeah what what a
very interesting year and I
2025 at the beginning as we spoke it
does seem like it has some challenges
with the state budget how that's going
to roll out to the county budget but on
a more positive note what are you
hopeful for in 2025 well I think and
let's back up a minute because when we
began this endeavor just a few months
ago you know we had obviously goals
regarding the charter Amendment uh and
certain specific County issues but I
think in general we always proceeded
from the idea that we believed in
informing our community empowering it as
best we can and and trying to find sort
of I guess what I would consider and I
think what you consider sort of a common
sense Middle Ground of things that that
does the greatest amount of good for the
most people right the classic
utilitarian idea you know like let's do
the most good for the most people and
let's do that by trying to create a form
where we can address issues well and
then when you do find an issue you can't
address let's address the fact we can
address an issue collectively right
absolutely um you know this kind of
circles back to something we've heard a
few of the politicians say including the
county executive that our group is
actually really small you and you and I
and a few other folks are the ones who
go on Camp CA our group is actually
pretty large and diverse you know we're
talking about people who are very much
associated with these types of decisions
I think what I'm hopeful for in
2025 is and we've seen this through uh
Facebook and the Nextdoor app is more
Community involvement particularly about
issues before the the horse is already
out of the barn yeah um and and I've
been guilty of this myself yeah you
don't get upset about something
until it's already in your backyard yeah
I I I I think most people respond uh to
issues only when it affects them
personally I think unfortunately that's
just a very human quality um but I do
think by talking about local issues more
you maybe do two things at once you you
help them get a better sense of yeah how
it does it affect you but also how does
it affect the community as a whole
because what I've seen in recent months
is more people have become aware and ATT
tuned to issues because we're now
actually trying to address them in a
public way that we never really did
before yeah I mean no no disrespect to
the late Greg Basset you know he had a
very I think important TV show but that
show and others that came before never
really dove into the like critically
analyzing local government well and and
I don't think anyone who would ever
watch our show uh or even listen to us
speak uh publicly needs to agree with us
yeah that is not a that is not a
requisite uh in fact you and I are very
different politically than than like
anybody else yeah but at the same time
we we agree often there's there's the
middle ground actually looks very
similar for lots of different political
viewpoints and it's pretty and it's
pretty big ground it is uh unfortunately
politics especially in today's culture
have turned into well you're either this
this extreme or that extreme and that
doesn't actually serve the greater good
I do think that uh we have an
opportunity in 2025 to get more public
participation does not mean people out
there need to come to all the meetings
sure but more importantly you know email
your your County Council uh reps your
city council reps even the ones who
aren't in your District because they're
actually representing the whole
theoretically right yeah absolutely well
uh have a great time over the the the
new year and uh enjoy the time with
family I know I will well thanks for
joining us this year for open Agenda
we're looking forward to being back in
2025 have a great holiday season have a
happy New Year we'll see you in January
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