On this week's OPEN AGENDA (S2 E15) we discuss cuts to Salisbury University student opportunities in favor of excessive administration salary increases. We also expose the half-truths being circulated by unreliable sources regarding how the County Council seat recently vacated by Shane Baker will be filled. Tune in and be informed.
Open Agenda TV S2 E 15 Shane Baker and SU Budget Crisis
Show Transcript
Disclaimer: The following transcript was auto-generated and may contain spelling or contextual errors.
You're watching Open Agenda. Here's our
host, Joe White.
Welcome to Open Agenda. I'm your host,
Joe White. In today's episode, we're
going to fill you in on a little bit of
county news, but also take some time to
bring some Salsbury University students
in to talk about some of the budget cuts
and some of the challenges they're
facing. But to start, I brought in Mike
Goldberg from Delmare. Thanks for coming
out. Always my pleasure. So, uh, we we
do have some news. We uh just last week,
County Councilman Shane Baker did resign
his post in district three. Uh he is
moving to Delaware. Yes, he is. Yeah,
good for him. Little less taxes, I hear.
No, he's he's building a nice new house
there and uh we certainly wish him all
the best. Yeah, it's been it's been good
in a way to have a a conservative voice
there. Um but uh you know, everybody has
it's time to move on and for him it's
now. So, uh, do want to clear up one
piece of misinformation that has been
circulated out there. Uh, already our
county executive through the the central
committee, which she has firm control
over, has come out and said that if
anyone wishes to apply for that position
in district 3, they should do so through
the central committee, which they can
do. That is perfectly fine, but it's not
necessary. Uh the county council will be
selecting the next person in district 3.
Uh they will get recommendations from
the central committee. But if anyone
does wish to apply, they must be a
registered voter in district 3,
Wcomakico County as a Republican. They
have to be registered as a Republican.
And all they need to do is email the
county council and in order to find out
an email to say President John Cannon or
Vice President Jeff Merritt, just need
to go to wakcomount.org and all that
information is there for them. That's
that's all there is to it. It's uh a
little bit disturbing, however, that the
information that has been um put forth
before the public was that you have to
go through the uh Republican central
committee. Um and this is coming
directly from the executives's office
and their third party um uh their third
party public information office. And
it's uh it's misleading um and it's uh
you know they they they told 50% of the
story, not the whole thing. Well, and
and this is this is the cycle that
they've come into. Uh even reaching out
and questioning our credibility. Uh
don't take our word for it. Read the
read the county charter. I mean, I
didn't write the charter. I didn't vote
on the charter. Um the charter says
this, the county council, this says they
may select uh someone from the
recommendation from the central
committee. But I mean, let's face it, uh
the central committee right now is
completely controlled by our county
executive. They also, people need to
know, they have firm control over the
Republican club. So, I mean, you and I
are both registered Republicans. We're
both conservatives. I I'm I'm in no
position right now to support either of
those organizations with my with my
campaign dollars to to support that,
although I'll continue to support other
conservative candidates. So, yeah,
absolutely. And there it is a what I
consider to be a grossly dishonest
effort to circumvent the council. Uh
it's a it's an effort to ensure that the
county an acolyte or supporter of the
county executive is selected. It's not
how the system works. The charter is
abundantly clear on that. Let's adhere
to the charter. So let's let's talk
about breaking that that system a little
bit. Uh I want to bring in three
Salsbury University students. uh a grad
student, two undergrads from different
backgrounds, different majors cuz
Salsbury University is facing one of the
same types of budget crisis that we're
seeing in the state of Maryland and also
trickling down to Wakcomo County where
there's a tightening of the belt, but
we're seeing a ballooning of overheads
with especially with the administrative
and the executive departments there. I
want to spend some time talking to those
students about how this is going to
impact their their experience at SU,
maybe even their careers, and then
afterwards, I'd like to come back and
get a get a few words in from both of
us. Well, I'm looking forward uh to
seeing these students and u well stay
with us. When we come back, we're going
to take some time with the Salsbury
University students. We'll be right
back. Welcome back to Open Agenda. I'm
your host, Joe White. wanted to take
some time today to involve the Salsbury
University student community as well as
the students there are facing some some
tough challenges with the state budget
cuts to the university system some of
the tough choices that the
administration is making. So I want to
discuss that with some of the students
that go into the university. So I
brought in Tom Greyo. Thank you for
coming out. Kevin Lad and Michael Greco.
Thank you gentlemen. No problem. So
before we dive in, what is your major
and uh what year are you? I am a nursing
major and I'm currently a sophomore. All
right, Kevin. I'm a graduate student in
the history department. And Mike, and
I'm a sophomore in the communication
department with a track in multimedia
journalism. And you know, I had a chance
to talk to each of you before uh we
started shooting. I mean, you're from
Berlin, uh do uh just across the bridge,
right? So, you know, Salsbury is part of
your backyard just like it is for me.
Um, oddly enough, I I did take some
classes at SU while I was also an
undergrad as well. So, uh, thank you
guys for coming out and talking about
this. So, what do you understand about
the cuts, the nature of the budget cuts
that the university is facing? And Mike,
uh, as obviously coming from somebody
who's only been at this institution for
two years, there's not a lot obviously
that I am very knowledgeable about.
Obviously, there there's a lot of
hearsay going on uh going among the
student body, whether it be student
media with uh different student
newspapers going around on campus
thinking uh thinking one way or thinking
another way. So, it's a lot of just it's
challenging to try and navigate it all
and try and figure out separate the
truth from the stuff that's being blown
out of proportion. Uh, as far as I
understand, I I think that there's been
a heavy focus on different clubs and
organizations trying to raise their own
funding, especially with uh the giving
day organ or the giving day stuff that
they have going on. So, uh I'm a member
of the sports network. So, we had our
own thing where uh we had a fundraising
link that donors could go to and raise
their own money. So, I think that's been
going on for a while, at least how I
understand it. So, uh the clubs and
organizations are trying whatever way
that they can to help keep themselves
funded. So, Kevin, you you have more
experience at the university. What what
is your understanding and and when did
you become aware that there was going to
be budget cuts? Um, well, I had the kind
of uh premonition that we'd be
experiencing this when I started seeing
some of the rhetoric at a national level
uh from the the uh Department of
Education kind of focusing on a push
towards uh privatization of of schooling
and homeschooling and things like that.
And I see this as um our you know
personal uh inevitable feeling of of of
the national effects.
Um, and so now we're we're kind of
starting to experience it ourselves. I
assume there's probably other
universities in the country that are
going through the same things or will be
at some point. So, uh, Tom, tell me, I
mean, are you have you heard much
outside of just like what what you were
hearing? Is it hearsay or is are you
getting direct communication from the
school? Um, so what the information that
I've gotten has actually come from a
couple of the classes that I've been
taking uh with the students and
professors talking about it. So I
definitely would say that you know
majority of it is hearsay but a lot of
it is fact too. I mean the federal
government is pushing for a multitude of
budget cuts across the entire country.
So it's not just Salsbury. So what is
what is your perspective of the cuts? I
mean, like there's always been times
throughout history that we've had to,
you know, quote unquote tighten our
belts. Do you feel like the students are
being punished for decisions other
people are making or do you feel like,
hey, you know, this is just part of the
cycle of of an eb and throw eb and flow
of economy?
I kind of feel as if it's, you know, a
tad bit of both, a little bit of both.
Um, it there is some like natural just
budget cuts happen for a reason. Um, but
I think a lot of it just depends on the
reason that it's actually happening. Um,
I think for a lot of the things at
Salsbury, just the budget cuts that
we're seeing are, you know, like the
information that I've gotten hasn't come
from the school. It's come from people
on their own time and students on their
own time and maybe even some faculty
doing research about actually what's
going on. Most of it's published um
because it should be. So, we're entitled
to know, but the actual awareness has
come from our student and faculty
realizing that something is going on and
we need to make a push for figuring out
what exactly is being prioritized and
what is being set aside. Well, Kevin, I
I want to ask you again because of your
experience, SU historically in 2022 and
2023 has had a surplus.
Have you have you had communication
about when there was a surplus and are
you getting a different level of
communication now that there's being
cuts? Yes. I I thought uh I thought it
was interesting kind of that you were
mentioning the uh I guess the the
visibility of of these cuts uh when
whenever there was a surplus or
something the students may receive an
email uh speaking about uh all these
extra resources we have available but it
seems that now as you mentioned um it's
only through kind of uh student and
faculty looking up the uh public records
uh of our budgets that we're learning
this information. We're not receiving
email from Dr. LRI uh uh stating, "Hey
guys, sorry we're going to have some
budget cuts. These are the things that
are going to be uh affected by that."
So, well, Michael, I want to ask you, I
mean, you you're part of this the sports
broadcast, but you're also a
communications, a multimedia
communications major. Are you seeing
more of the
cuts under what hat? Your major or your
extracurriculars? Uh I think it's I
would have to say obviously because the
organizations and the clubs are a little
bit smaller obviously than the vast
department of a university obviously
that one might receive a lot more
funding because that's what the the
university is built upon the foundation
of it. So it would be the same thing as
if saying, you know, is a are we seeing
more are we going to see more cuts to
the Henson school or are we going to see
it uh more of a cut to maybe a club that
specified like a student ran
organization that specifies in a certain
area. So I think I think a lot of people
if they had to choose a priority I think
they would probably end up choosing
those academic institution or the parts
of the institution which directly go
towards the major programs. And I I
think that's just how it is with whether
you're talking about a college or a high
school or anything like that. Anytime
that you have to start figuring out
where where the fat is to cut off, it's
going to be the things that are deemed
maybe not as essential. So, uh, for me,
so you're saying that don't cut from the
from the majors, from the classes, from
that experience, but cut from maybe some
of the other ancillary, uh, activities.
I I believe that would probably be the
most beneficial for everybody just so
that you can have the you have the
foundation to build that education. The
for me at least, the clubs and stuff is
all part of that, gaining experience
that you would need to put on your
resume. That's personally what I do it
for. So when I'm doing my
extracurriculars here, it's so I can put
it on my resume to accompany my
education. So I think both are just very
important to the student experience and
to uh the experience that you will bring
into the workforce. So I I can
understand why it would be so difficult
to try and figure out where you take the
cut from uh in the university
standpoint. Well, Tom, I mean, listen,
of of everybody's majors here, and
everybody is is important, but you're
you're a nursing major. I mean, uh, have
you are you expecting to see this impact
your ability to complete your major and
and get the experience you need to get
out into the workforce? I'm hoping no.
I'm hoping that that won't happen. Um,
but, you know, I have to kind of take it
from a realistic approach that there is
always a possibility of that happening.
What we've seen um is more admittance
into the program, which is great um on
pen and paper, more possible funding,
but does that mean bigger class sizes?
It will be um it'll be bigger classes
and there will be a little more
competition for actually getting
hands-on resources. Um, one of the
biggest aspects of the major that I'm in
is learning and acquiring hands-on
skills and abilities that you need in a
hospital scenario. And with a
overcrowded competition um, amongst the
nurses trying to learn, some people
might not, you know, get a full grasp of
the ability or might not be able to do
certain skills. I certainly hope I'm not
the one in the hospital when when maybe
one of the the newly graduated nursing
students who didn't get the hands-on
training they were supposed to get is
now up to work on me. I mean, that's not
the time for them to be figuring it out,
right? Yeah. Kevin, you know, you have
the most experience of everybody at this
table at the university. Uh there's
obviously a lot of talk going around
about the large salaries and the raises
that the administration's getting. Want
to get your perspective on on, you know,
when when everybody's having to tighten
their belt up, but then you look at
salaries exceeding $400,000, $300,000.
How does that make you feel as someone
who's already got so much invested in
your education at Salsbury University? I
think it's uh I think it's kind of
obviously contradictory um if our
university uh if our rhetoric is saying,
"Oh, you know, we're we're here to build
up our students and train them and give
them the best possible university
experiences. Um and then amongst the
these budget cuts that will be bringing
uh larger class sizes, probably
underfunding uh some some resources for
clubs and things like that. Um it's it's
a bit of a slap in the face to then see
um see these published records of the uh
uh the the salaries of the
administration with a large majority of
of the higher highest oppositions uh
getting a 9 to 12% pay raise. Yeah. I
mean I've I've been a business owner in
the private sector for over 30 years. Uh
getting much more than a 3 to 5% pay
increase without a a position change is
rare. I mean rare. But, uh, I also when
I look at some of the charts, what I've
noticed is there's a lot of new
positions in the in the administration
level. And again, Tom, I I kind of want
to circle back to you. How many times in
your nursing program have has someone
from the administration come in to to
teach you what you need to know? What do
you mean? Has anybody from the
administration showed up in one of your
your labs? Uh, you know, we were talking
off camera. We're both science guys.
Labs are a big part of my science degree
and and and your nursing degree. Have
any of these new positions that have
been added in the last few years, have
they have they been in your labs
teaching you? No. Okay.
uh you know, for for you, Michael, I
mean, you're you're you're building
yourself up through not just your your
education, but immersing yourself in
your major so that when you're you're
you're completed your degree, you almost
have a have a record of, hey, look, this
is this is how far I've grown, not just
with grades, but also with context, with
with calling games. uh if you if you get
to a point that you're not able to do
it, what does that diminish your your
education, your ability to to find work
after school? I I don't believe so.
Obviously, with the vast market of
communications, there's a lot of
opportunity. So, say if I if my
opportunity were to get cut at the
university, hypothetically, I could go
to a a station, a local news station
nearby, maybe WBOC, WMDT, or if I wanted
to stay in the sports area, I could go
and work for the Del Marva Shorebirds
just down the road. So, I think I'm very
privileged and very lucky to have uh to
have dreams and aspirations into a
career that has all of those
opportunities outside of my institution.
Uh I'm just also very lucky that
Salsbury has all that it has to offer to
me uh in terms of things that I can do
to build up my background and my
portfolio as you mentioned so that I can
go into a very competitive work market
and be able to say hey I've while I was
getting my degree in a relative field I
also have now by the time I graduate
about four years worth of experience
that maybe a lot of people going into
the market won't have. So going back to
your question, I think that uh even if
uh like things were to get cut here at
the university, I think me personally, I
might be able to make make it out of it
because uh of all the outside of the
university opportunities that are still
available to me. uh and I can at the
same time understand when people who are
not communication majors and maybe have
to worry about the outside connections
that they could build outside of the
university uh pertaining to their major,
I can understand maybe when they won't
have that much of a surplus like I am
lucky enough to benefit from. So Kevin,
I mean one of your goals is is
international education. Uh, is is there
is there a a fear that some of these
budget cuts while we're also increasing
administrative wages could could put
almost a ceiling on your ability to to
reach your goals? Yes. I mean, at this
university, um, I've, um, I would have
to say I've I've
I've already kind of had to do a lot of
that work myself if I wanted to. um in
terms of
uh working outside of maybe alter um
outside of traditional um education or
traditional kind of like uh expectations
for for education. Um I've not been
outside of a few kind of mentors and
professors really been had any push or
led in that direction. Um it's all kind
of been uh having to reach out to to
things myself push yourself out outside
the lines. So, there is going to be a
protest on campus on Wednesday, April
23rd at 3:00 outside the Greer Academic
Commons. Uh, our our our show will post
after that, but I want to ask each of
you gentlemen and take some time. What
do you want and and I'm going to start
with you, Tom. What do you want people
to know who are outside of the campus
and in particular folks who live and
reside in this county who whether they
understand it or not, Salsbury
University is part of their economic
system here. what what do you what do
you hope that people will know?
I you know kind of am hoping on a a main
takeaway of two things. One in like a
general aspect of people need to
understand that students and college
students going up for a higher education
are the backbone of the future
generations. We are the ones taking care
of everybody and you know continuing to
push for jobs and just keep the country
running. Um, specifically from a nursing
background, if budget cuts end up
cutting nursing, who's going to take
care of people when they're sick or
injured or get into a car accident or,
you know, facing a life or death
situation, that stuff isn't just learned
off of, you know, videos online. You
have to have years of experience and go
through so much training. And if it ends
up affecting that, people need to
understand that they're not going to be
able to get simple care and stuff that
is like overlooked right now. It won't
be SU's provost showing up to put, you
know, help, you know, set your arm,
right? Yeah. Kevin, uh, how about you? I
mean, what what do you what do you hope
I mean, you're you you had the graduate
you you already have your undergrad
degree, you're working on a graduate
degree. What do you want people to know?
Um I mean it it's it's a bit frustrating
I guess uh as as you said the students
are kind of the the work uh the the
backbone of the university. The
university could not exist without
students. Um and if we're kind of being
shown to our face uh that that we aren't
the priority uh you know that that oh
you guys will be all right you know um
it's it's it's a slap in the face first
off. Um it's it's I think that's my main
takeaway. I would I would like people to
realize that uh if we kind of
consolidate these programs
uh first off students are going to have
less of a desire to come to our
university. Um if we offer less uh clubs
and extracurriculars and things like
that that is a big draw for a lot of
people. So, I mean, the university,
public universities, it's it's a it's a
for-profit business, but at the same
time, we need to um we need to have some
some students to to generate profit and
we need to have students uh who who want
to tell their friends, hey, you should
you should check out Salsbury
University. I had a really great time
there. I met all these cool people. I
had all these extra uh all these really
cool clubs that I was a part of.
Um, I mean, if we just if we just break
it all down and put all the money in in
Purdue or something like that, that's
great. We might have a couple uh future
CEOs coming out, but we're going to lose
all the maybe all the the liberal arts
students. They're going to go somewhere
else. All the theater kids, all the
history kids, all the English majors,
and then all of a sudden, uh, we have a
Salsbury University is a business
school. That's it. You know, Michael,
what what do you hope that folks out
there who may be watching this, uh,
whether they're in Dover, Delaware or
all the way down here to Salsbury, what
do you want them to know? I think one of
the main takeaways, at least for me, is
that in my limited time here, I've see
how dedicated this student body is to
making sure that they're being heard.
Uh, just just this year alone, I mean,
we've seen so many uh demonstrations and
organized protests by the student body.
when something isn't exactly the way
that they would like it to be, they're
going to make sure that their voice is
heard. And I think that's just an
overall commentary on the state of the
world that we're seeing right now with
the with the upcoming generation is that
they're not going to sit idly by and let
something take advantage of them. I
think uh one of the biggest things that
you can see from the protests that would
be happening on Wednesday. I think uh
just it's another addition of the
Salsbury student body advocating for the
change that they want to see. And um I
think that a lot of people can look at
that and maybe even be inspired to maybe
advocate for themselves or things that
they find that are not exactly going the
way that they want to go. And if they
just a a feeling of inspiration from the
younger generation, I think to take it
positively from uh something like that,
I think that would be some of the most
important things that you could do. I
I'll tell you guys uh the last few years
I've been very involved in in the in the
local politics scene. I don't not you
know not a elected official or anything
like that but uh it is is it's it's very
much
a very very important that even a small
group be able to stand up for themselves
and have the platform to do it uh and
even sometimes have to come together as
a bigger group. So I really appreciate
each and every one of you for taking the
time to come out here. Um I wish you all
well uh and uh uh you know let's the
university is worth fighting for. So,
uh, stay positive and, uh, keep at it,
okay? 100%. Thank you. Thank you.
Roaring Point Park, located about 30
miles west of Salsbury off of Nantacoke
Road, offers one of the best swimming
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you'll find about 3/4 of a mile of sandy
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beach can get a bit skinny when tides
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umbrella. A parking lot is available if
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car, but it can get pretty busy on hot
summer weekends, so be sure to come
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Portis are situated in the parking lot,
and it's just a short walk through a
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close by. Roaring Park is free to all
and dogs are welcome provided that
they're leashed. But please clean up
after your dog so that no one
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you know. Although camping is not
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which the park is named is actually a
sandy cape that extends several hundred
yards out into the Nantacoke River.
Depending on wind direction, the cape
usually protects part of the beach from
wind and waves. Although the water is
shallow on both sides of the Cape, once
you go past the tip, the depth drops to
almost 50 ft. So, be careful. Tugboats
pushing huge barges of sand and gravel
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year with 140 different species of birds
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and take a swim. Fish, crab, swim, and
relax at Roaring Point Park, or just
come to take a pleasant walk on the
beach. For more information, please
visit the Wycom County Recreation,
Parks, and Tourism website.
Welcome back to Open Agenda. I'm your
host Joe White. Staying in the studio
with me is Mr. Mike Goldberg back.
Thanks for sticking around. Well, I
thought the the students did a great job
of articulating some of their
viewpoints. Uh I I want to get a little
sense of I mean what what did you find?
You were able to watch the segment being
filmed. Well, uh first of all, I'm
pretty impressed with these young
people. It gives me a little bit of hope
for the future when you have so many,
you know, intelligent, articulate young
people.
uh they're certainly looking to the
future. Uh you know, we need to have a
trained professional workforce and
they're uh I feel that their concerns
are very legitimate. um if uh if there's
too much money taken away from actually
educating and from the uh associated
extracurricular activities that helps
them to broaden you know their skill set
and their practical experience instead
of of focusing on the educational part
of their college experience when too
much money is going towards
administrative costs um they're not
going to get as good of an education so
their gripes are are quite legitimate
And I think I definitely got the sense
they weren't just here to get a piece of
paper and a stamp on it. Uh they were
here for the experience. I I do want to
say and we didn't we didn't go into the
numbers with them. Uh they've seen the
numbers, but I have access to uh the the
actual data that shows the the
ballooning of administrative cost over
at SU. And you know, you're talking
salaries over $400,000, 300,000
multiples. Um, you know, these are these
are high leverage positions as far as
the the amount of money it takes. And
then we're talking about cutting out uh
club money for a whole club that impacts
many students over
$20,000. I I think that that makes it
tough. You and I have spent a lot of our
time uh dealing with county politics in
much the same way. uh you know, we we we
can debate the merits of having an
executive branch uh or having directors
and deputy directors in every position,
but at the same time, all that really
matters to most people most days is uh
was the landfill open? Was was was the
excavators there doing the job they
should and not, you know, worrying about
a private event for someone? Did the did
the budget roll up and and does it does
it show that the money was spent for the
greater good of the community? Their
community is student body there. They're
asking the same question. Well,
educating these young people, that is
their prime objective, not to uh have a
topheavy management structure. Um, you
know, in the private sector where both
of us come from, uh, you know, we know
that when you're too topheavy, it's it's
a lot of money wasted. Um in government
unfortunately and schools are part of
the government um the u when you do not
have a profit motive then you have
inherent inefficiency. So they need to
buckle their belts I'm sorry tighten
their belts and um uh we need to reduce
the administration and be sure that
those kids those young people are
getting the education that they need.
you know, you and I we so we we we
reference this, but let me be in a
little bit more specifics. Uh you you
come from a finance background, banking,
you've you've poured over countless
financial statements, performs and that
sort of thing. I come from a private
sector with the hospitality business
from golf and from restaurants, even you
know, wholesale, seafood, that sort of
thing. If we were if we were having to
make budget cuts, the first place we
would start would be at the top.
Correct. That's that's where I would
start. Abs. Unfortunately, all too often
if the cuts wind up coming from the
bottom and then the organization,
whatever it is, is less capable of of
meeting its primary objective. I think
uh you know, for for folks out there
watching our show, uh you may ask, well,
you why are you so involved in in a
group with with Salsbury University?
One, they're a big part of our community
and our economy. Absolutely. Whether
you're a big fan of the school or not,
it is nice to see, as you said, young
people getting involved at an early age.
You and I got involved at different
parts of our lives. They're getting
involved now. They're they're seeing a
need for that. But I also think that
there's there's this
um this sense that we should just take
whatever's given to us. And uh I think
part of our our existence here in in in
this country and in this county is that
you do have to stand up and fight for
yourself. Absolutely. You have to be
somewhat aggressive. You have to look
out for your own interests and uh you
know just to sit back and take whatever
crumbs that they want to give you. Uh
that's not a pathway to success. The the
the one thing that stuck out we we
talked about in the opening segment
about the miscommunication. Uh, I
thought I found it interesting when I
asked each each of the three of them how
did they find out about these budget
cuts. They each got their information
from different people that they found
reliable. And I think that's one thing I
want people to to know. We were talking
about the Republican Central Committee.
You know, variably a committee that you
and I would normally support, maybe not
in this county at this time, uh, because
of of who's who's taking it over, but
the information coming out of it right
now isn't credible. uh and and and they
were saying much the same thing that
they're having to find their own
information. Primary source I think is
the the terminology and and I think
that's a good lesson for everybody out
there. Absolutely. You know, you can't
take anything for granted from any news
source, uh any source of public
information. It you have to look closely
at things and you have to seek out, you
know, multiple sources. Then you're more
likely to get to the truth. But when you
have a concentration of power as we have
here in Wcomakico County where you have
the same people who are controlling the
executive branch of the government, who
are controlling the Republican club, who
are, you know, controlling the
Republican central committee at three
different organizations, but you're
really only getting one message. And
we've seen it all too many times, all
too often that message is not complete
or it's not even honest. Yeah. Well,
thanks for spending some time with us.
Uh, research the information we've given
you. Go back to primary source. We think
you'll you'll you'll find the results
will be much better. So, we'll be back
next week with another new episode.
