Don't miss the latest episode of OPEN AGENDA (S2 E13). This week we report on the Bio-Refinery Boondoggle, Belated Budget Audit, Revenue Cap Wrangling, Dubious Gift Card Distributions, and the Downtown Density Dilemma. Tune in and be informed.
Open Agenda TV S2 E13 Free Government Giftcards and Financial Audits with Mike Lankford
Show Transcript
Disclaimer: The following transcript was auto-generated and may contain spelling or contextual errors.
You're watching Open Agenda. Here's our
host, Joe White. Welcome to Open Agenda.
I'm your host, Joe White. In this
episode, we're going to we're going to
take some time to delve into the board
of appeals decision for the
bio-refinery, discuss some of the
matters that came up at the county
council meeting at the uh April 1st
meeting, and then we're also going to
check in with uh some local community
members about their uh local concerns as
well. In the studio to do that is uh Dr.
Joe Venosa from Salsbury and uh Mr. Mike
Goldberg from Delmare. Thank you
gentlemen for coming out. Always my
pleasure. So uh we we did we we covered
the the bio-refinery quite quite
extensively. Uh very happy to hear that
the board of appeals did vote 5 to zero.
Yeah. I uh I make the motion that uh we
affirm the zoning administrator's
decision that it was not an accessory
use. Motion Mr. Turner. Second. Second.
Mr. Andis.
discussion. Seeing none, all those in
favor of the motion the zoning
administrator's
recommendation or or Okay. Decision
decision. Yes. Please signify by saying
I I opposed to not allow them the
variance. Right. It was it was a it was
quite a meeting. I think I think there's
eight parts of it on YouTube for the 14.
Mike got a medal for us get setting up
early and staying through the whole
thing and then breaking brief. I didn't
get home till 12:30 and my my wife was
starting to wonder if I had a girlfriend
or something. I was If it's any
consolation, friends were texting me all
across the county being like, I hope
Mike's okay. He's hanging in there. So,
well, Mike, thank you for sticking
around to that meeting. So, let's talk
about that process. Um, you know, you
were there to witness it. Uh, the there
was another item on the agenda, but
let's let's let's focus on the
biorefinery. Uh, they they they heard
testimony not just from Mr. Catheria,
but also from the community as well.
Correct. They did. And uh you know, some
of the uh uh neighborhood residents
around the bio-refinery, they didn't
speak till the end. Name's Lee
Richardson. If he is going to grow
chickens, he should have a letter of
intent. When you buy a farm, doesn't
mean you're a farmer. I'm a sixth
generation farmer. I've been growing
poultry, grain all my life, 30 plus
years. I'm very well experienced. We
don't compost our manure. We compost the
dead birds to get rid of them. If we let
scientists make the rules and not
politicians, there wouldn't be a litter
problem. But here we are and I don't
care worse. The only question here
tonight is whether it is right for the
zoning. I was around in 1997 when we
made the right to farm law and a lot of
that information and I was well involved
and I've been involved ever since. My
opinion, this is not agriculture. That
is not is not a normal practice. That's
what the right to farm law protects, not
new technologies or anything. If you
want to do new technology, you go
through the process that this industrial
operation is unsuitable for A1 zone
neighborhood. And further want to thank
the board for acknowledging this is an
industrial use, not an allowable
accessory use in A1 and it does not
belong in a residential neighborhood.
Thank you. the the evidence, the issue
was so clear, I think, to the uh to the
board members that they didn't have to
listen to a hundred different uh
residents speak. I mean, at the end of
the day, he filed permits with the
county government to have a storage
facility, not a biorefinery. Is that is
that the most accurate way to say that?
Yes. Essentially, that's the case, but
it was not a storage facility. It was
abundantly clear upon inspection by the
county inspector that it was in fact a
manufacturing facility. So Joe, I mean
we we've covered here that that Raj
Curia, he's on the the Maryland
Agriculture Commission, the state
commission. He is actually not someone
who's from here. He now owns property on
Atkins Road. We know that. Yeah. Uh we
know that there was a a failed attempt
to put a bio-refinery on the east side
of the county. M uh fortunately out
there, one of our neighbors who owned
the property realized that he was doing
something that he shouldn't have been
doing and and and terminated the the the
lease. Yeah. Come to find out a couple
years later, he owns a piece of
property. Mr. Cather, um how exactly are
you affiliated with um International
Bio-refineries?
I am um 90% owner of that. It's your
company. It's fair to say. And that
company is also um referred to as InBio.
Is that correct? That is correct. And
InBio received a a grant from the
Department of Agriculture, a $1.9
million grant um back in 2020. Is that
correct? Uh that was part of uh the
things that that were required. Um and
um it was our proposal was a onfarmm
proposal. So you didn't need permission
to transfer it from the first property
to the property that you intend to put
this on now. Is the zoning of each
property something that is discussed?
The zoning was not discussed. No. What
what kind of what kind of message do you
think it sends to residents of a county
like ours that the state a commission
has is supportive of this? I I think it
it it teaches us the age-old lesson of
follow the money because you never know
where it goes. Mike, you you've you've
been a victim of weaponization of
government. You certainly have. And and
you have I mean there's some concerns
that that that Raj Catheria has some
ties to local elected officials, right?
I mean and we don't know how deep these
are. We don't know if he has ties or
not. The only thing we know is that
we've seen Mr. Thuria photographed with
the county executive. That doesn't
necessarily mean that there's anything
there, but it could be. And you also
have to question, you know, the the
simple fact that he is on the
agricultural commission. Did he get any
kind of preferential treatment to uh to
obtain the grants? I don't know.
And now that you know if this does not
go forward and right now it's not going
forward but it will very likely be
appealed to the circuit court. That's is
his his final uh Mr. Thur's final avenue
of relief. The resolution that was just
approved
uh by prepared findings of fact that we
have to do within 45 days. After that is
approved,
then upon my signature and that date is
when you have 30 days to appeal. You say
that the circuit court's final uh stop,
but it it it's not necessarily. We saw
this with the planning and zoning with
the downtown density. It it can go to
circuit court, especially if you have
enough money for lawyers. It could go to
the appellet court and ultimately to the
the Maryland Supreme Court. So, do you
think we could see this come back to
like a planning and zoning type of
issue where they actually start to
change text amendments to allow
bio-refineries in the community. It's
certainly a possibility. I of course I
hope that does not happen because that
would be I think very unfair to the
residents. Did uh did the county
executive um has she interacted with
y'all um in any manner? Uh has she
expressed a position on the
bio-refinery? we hadn't heard at all
from her and so one of our one of my
neighbors did contact her directly and
we did get um a statement that she was
in support of not putting the refinery
in that location. So I don't know if she
you know is in favor of being somewhere
else but she did say that she didn't
want it in this location. So Joe back to
the question I had asked you you see
that maybe there's not a level playing
field. Oh no, not at all. So what can we
do about it? Well, I think as always,
citizens have to educate themselves
about who campaign donors are or perhaps
are, what is the position of local
officials on these issues. I think it's
quite stunning that for uh certain
elected officials like our county
executive who make entire 15-minute
social media spectacles about the dog
kennel issue uh on this major issue
about the health and well-being of
citizens, not a single public statement
has been made. Bigger than just Mr. and
this one bio-refinery. This is uh I
think a mentality that they have over in
Annapolis that they can just keep
pushing this stuff here and we need to
stand tall. Never doubt that a small
group of concerned citizens can change
the world. Thank you.
Who is going to protect the next
neighborhood? I mean, we saw with with
Shadow Hills, we're seeing it now with
Canterbury. Uh we need our government to
work for us, not in behind us. Is that
is that fair? Well, that's that's
wonderful in theory, but you know the in
in in real life the politicians have a
strong tendency to work for themselves
as as Joe Venosa said follow the money
and right now we don't have any kind of
connection and we've looked it doesn't
mean it's not there doesn't mean that it
is there we just don't know but we could
put aside the money for the moment and
just look at it in terms of how
politicians could be differential to
certain influence because you know again
I find it interesting that just a few
weeks after her inauguration, she's up
in Annapolis to publicly meet with Mr.
Ctheria and and these folks and and how
other people seem to, you know, because
perhaps of their financial influence,
their influence on the state a board,
there really is, you know, it's like the
old George Orwell quote, you know, uh,
you know, some animal, we're all equal,
but some are more equal than others and
from animal farm. Um, go awesome book,
right? What a what a tiein to the bio
refinery. Yeah. Um, so pigs aside, I I
think the county executive and uh other
officials that perhaps are
um, you know, looking to cur influence
and have connections to the state, I
think they they tend to just gravitate
toward those people of influence. And it
doesn't give the regular citizen, the
regular Joe, uh, perhaps a lot of
confidence that when there is something
like this biio-refinery issue that that
that they'll be heard because they're
regular people. All too often we found
and we saw the same thing with Shadow
Hills, you know, trying to put on a uh
turn this tract of county owned land
into an off road uh venue immediately
adjacent to a very stable residential
neighborhood. I'm sorry. This this not
only is wrong under the zoning code, but
it's ethically and morally wrong. And I
have another question about this. You
know, this was funded at least in part
through grant money. So if he can't move
forward, if Mr. Cthuria can't move
forward, you know, with this
manufacturing facility on agricultural
land, what happens to that grant that
grant money? Does it just go away? Does
he put it in his pocket? I I I have no
idea. Mike, you need to go out and earn
some more for for the next project.
Well, so speaking of county business, uh
when we come back from the break, I want
to I want to go over the county council
meeting. We had the we finally got the
financial bud budget audit and uh really
want to dive into that because we're
getting ready to dive right into the
2000 the fiscal year 2026 budget. Not a
moment too soon. So stay with us. We'll
be right back.
Welcome back to Open Agenda. I'm your
host Joe White. wanted to take some time
to dis to discuss the county council
meeting on April 1st, specifically the
financial audit from fiscal year 2024,
which actually closed 9 months before
that, uh, 9 months. And, uh, also talk a
little bit about some of the other
county business. Uh, in the studio still
with me is Dr. Joinosa and Mike
Goldberg. Thank you guys for sticking
around. Haven't run me off yet. Yeah.
So, uh, let's let's dive into some of
the easier stuff. the uh they had a
public hearing to uh expand uh the the
right to farm which is something that
the state of Maryland's allowing to also
commercial fishermen. Uh this is
something the Westside Commission has
taken up uh and expand the notification
requirement to include the right to
conduct commercial seafood operations.
Maryland law with regard to right to
establish the right to farm act uh
committee. Um it also had language in it
that allowed uh the right to farm act
committee to hear uh seafood related uh
matters as well. To me I see this as a
as a chance that government has had a
chance to hear from their constituents
and is acting on it within the realm of
what's legal. Is that right? Seems like
it. Yeah. I you know I know this is
probably a little bit more something
that I'm passionate about. I'm in the
wholesale seafood business. I I own
farmland. Uh I own a business. uh you
know, anything we can do to be more
businessfriendly because as we're about
to talk about the budget season, uh the
state of Maryland is in itself, uh the
federal government in itself and and
trickling down to the county is making
it as hard as possible to be a small
business uh in in this area right now.
Um and also maybe being a taxpayer. So
uh u you know that's a bit All right,
where to begin? Well, let's let's begin
with 2024 because we finally got the
financial audit. Uh Ashley Sterns from
PKS was there to to present the budget
audit. My name is Ashley Stern. I'm a
partner with PKS and Company and we're
your auditors with me tonight. I have
Ryan Taylor who's our manager in charge
of the audit. Really, as part of the
audit, what you're having an independent
party come in to do is issue an opinion
on the financial information within
those within this document. The primary
government has an unrestricted net
position of 99.82 million or about 34%
of the net position. That's a
56 56.86 million increase from last
year. Our general fund revenues
increased from 2023 by $26 million. And
that's mainly due to uh three areas.
One, an increase in our income tax
revenue from the state of Maryland. two,
an increase in our investment income
from 23 to 2024. And lastly is the
American Rescue Plan Act grant monies
which were mostly recognized in fiscal
year 2024. As you can see over time, uh
you especially post uh the pandemic time
frame, we've seen an increase in our our
overall health of the county or our fund
balance. Taking a look at the budget to
actual numbers which starts on page 119
of the financial statements. Actual
revenues were $26 million graded greater
than budgeted amounts. This is made up
of a few items. First, our income taxes
was $12 million more than the budget.
Our American Rescue Plan Act funds that
we were able to recognize in 2024 were
$5 million more than the budget. and our
investment earnings were just over $10
million which were 5% more than the
budget. Milgip um as a note actually saw
a 2% increase in their investment rate
last year contributing to that increase
in the earnings. Actual expenditures
were
$16.16 million less than the budget
amounts. There were significant savings
savings in a few departments, public
works, detention center, and public
safety. Taking a look at the the trend
over the past six years for the solid
waste fund revenues over just over 10
million for 2024 where expenses were
slightly down uh in 2024 compared to
2023 and that was due to some
maintenance that happened in 2023 and
overall there's an operating income of
$1.3 million. Look, you know, it doesn't
maybe it doesn't seem to some folks like
it's important, but this was due state
law says this was due 3 months ago,
right? The number one question that
we've been asked uh the council or I
have is how how come this is so late? It
was so many months late last year and
now it's again and then and then the the
year ended what July June 30th of 24 and
it's this late you know it's it's that's
a long time. It is a long time. We can
only complete the audit when we have all
the information. It typically takes us 6
weeks from the end of our testing to be
able to to be at this presentation, but
we received the information um with this
testing about 30 days ago. So, we
wrapped everything up and were able to
get it. We don't see a lot of uh
internal auditing done that is is is
disclosed publicly. And I actually have
some news there I want to share, but uh
we have already had the county executive
have a budget meeting with the board of
ed folks and even with her actual
political party which is the Delm Marva
conservative movement where she has
talked about
uh you know overriding the the revenue
cap uh for at least one year and I think
ultimately their goal is to to get rid
of it or modify it to a point that it's
basically moot. Um Mike, I mean you're
you're the guy sitting here, you've
worked your whole life and you're you're
the one who's considered on a fixed
income. I mean how do you feel about the
possibility of paying more in taxes? Oh
gee, I just love the idea of giving more
of my money to the government, you know,
while I'm on a fixed income. You know,
it it's it's very disturbing. You know,
look, on a national level, we're seeing
a lot of belt tightening and we need to
see some belt tightening in this county.
You know, exactly where I can't tell
you, I haven't done a review of the
budget. I'm not part of the the
government operations, but government is
by its very nature inefficient. There's
no profit motive. And where you don't
have a profit motive, there's going to
be waste. So, there's got to be a way to
tighten our belts rather than increasing
taxes. But even before you get to that
point, you got to at least know what you
were receiving the previous year in the
budget. Well, this is this is the crazy
part to me. It's not as if the county
executive and the director of finance,
Pam Olen, don't have some sort of idea
that we have $85 million in in in
unassigned funds. When last year we had
75, five, six years ago, long before the
county executive was was elected, we had
30ome million. Uh the state of Maryland
has said that we only need two months of
unassigned funds in the bank, which is
roughly about 40 million for for a
county our size, a little less than 40
million. We have doubled that, which and
and the county executive states, and I
believe she's correct, it does help her
bond rating. I don't agree with her that
she built it because this this this
reserve's been there for a long time.
And uh but when you're talking about
raising taxes uh and and to use her
words, it's kept $9 million in the
private sector a year that with h by
having the revenue cap. We need to fund
board of education. We need to step that
effort up. But to do so knowing that you
have $85 million in unassigned funds
seems irresponsible. Well, it's
irresponsible, but it's also a um how
would I put this? It is a less than
honest argument because of the fact that
the revenue cap and the board of ed
funding are two separate things. Okay.
And one of the things that has
frustrated me and I've always and you
know have always been a very big
advocate of public education is the fact
that there appears to be a political
motive to try to frame this as some
crusade to help the schools when
really it's an entirely different thing.
Um what is that thing? Well again let's
let's let's be clear. Who are the most
adamant entities in our county that want
the revenue cap to go away? Generally
speaking, developers. Okay.
Um committary committee. People
connected to the political machine in an
Annapolis. Um and and people who just
honestly maybe think that a
a mechanism to raise revenue is always
the default solution. Well, even as a
conservative myself, we've had two
elected, you know, Republican
conservative county executives who when
they were running on campaign were for
the revenue cap. Once they got elected,
both of them were wanting to get rid of
the revenue cap. And that that's
disturbing to me. Well, and again, I'm
not even necessarily in principle for or
against the revenue cap. But what I'm
saying is these are two different
issues, right? And what she has done is
she has hijacked ed education in a way
that has tied into her bigger agenda
which I believe is a developerbacked
plot to get rid of the revenue cap. I
actually I've done some research. I've
been on the county website. I've looked
at the open checkbook system in the last
two years. Uh there there is a huge
increase amongst not just the
executive's office in her department but
also other departments that answer
directly to her in an increase in gift
card purchases. Yes. Uh and also local
dining uh without any at least public
explanation of why. And now I'm asking
the question where is this money? Where
did it go? Um I we we we heard from
Councilman Holloway on Tuesday that gift
cards is one of the the most unethical
ways for a government to use Oh yeah. uh
their funds. You can't track it. Are are
you privy to the information that or the
audits that our internal auditor did?
Wait, do we review those? Are you
familiar with the recent peak audit
audit that I have not seen that one yet.
Has that been issued? Well, we just got
it a week or so ago, but um sorry, I
have not seen that yet. And and what you
know when you see that it kind of make
I'm looking at thousands of dollars here
spent for gift cards and the flags go up
when I see that and I and I'm wondering
how deep into those kind of things do
you get as an auditor um
to you know make us aware maybe if we
don't. I I'll look forward to to seeing
what what's in that report. It's pretty
it's pretty shocking when you look at it
and and we had this issue with the
county with the board of education a few
years ago with gift cards and gift cards
are the one of the biggest risk as far
as abuse you know that there is I think
you'll agree you know if you've read
anything about accounting or fraud or
anything like that you you know gift
cards
are they shouldn't even have them in in
government for one thing because they
can be abused but um you well now if you
look at the the the manual. So, I've
asked these questions. If you look at
the manual, it says it must, and this is
coming from the state, it must show the
enduser. So, one of the areas I have
found uh that have purchased the most
gift cards is the local management
board. Now, we've asked the
question, you know, Mr. Bosman just
disappeared. Yeah. Did he disappear
because he was purchasing the gift cards
or did he purchase because he found that
the gift cards were being purchased? I'm
asking that question now. That's going
to ruffle some feathers. This is the
question that has to be asked and I'm
talking $1,600 20 or $2,000 at a time.
And I've asked the question, can they
find who the end user was? And then
Councilman Holloway asked a similar
question to Ashley Sterns from PKS
during the financial audit. Okay. And
she did not have an answer at that time.
Now, you can't expect her to. She did
say they would do more testing. I think
our county council needs to get their
internal auditor. Mhm. I think they need
to ask PKS to to do more testing to find
out where these are coming from because
10 years ago it was discovered that the
board of education Yeah. was purchasing
gift cards and using them in a way that
is not only not legal but it's it's it's
not ethical. Uh before we ever discuss
whether we should raise taxes or cut
funding, we need to know where our
financial or where our elected officials
are putting the money. I'm not saying
under any circumstances the c the county
executive is the one doing this. But
she's the one elected as a fiduciary to
look this up. Our county council there
they've noticed it now. Yeah. So I was
able to get access to an internal audit
and in that internal audit it was raised
and this would have come from uh Anelie
Santel's office that there are they do
tests they did 500 and some tests and
there are purchases that don't show
where the end user is not just in gift
cards but say see two local uh officials
go to lunch over at Mogan's Oyster House
downtown or Brew River and they have a
meeting, it has to state who's there at
the meeting and what was discussed,
right? It's not on the public record.
Interesting, isn't it? And when you're
doing a test, you know, say 10% of those
types of transactions and you're finding
some u irregularities,
then I think you have to dig deeper and
maybe look into every single one of
them. You know, as a former banker, you
know, that's how we would be doing
things. we'd be digging in deeper if
we're smelling some smoke. Well, there's
one other area that I that I found that
really disturbs me and and I found
multiple ones, but this one
specifically. You know, the county
executive has family that is tied into
the Main Street Gym and and by and large
they're a great organization that keeps
a lot of kids uh active, but her family
has some ties there. uh immediate
family. Uh the county executive did a
$500 donation to the Main Street gym.
Now, here's the problem. In our charter,
it says that appropriations must be
approved by the county council. Here's
one example, and I'm not some sort of
forensic accountant. I know enough to
run, you know, a couple successful
businesses. I've been been blessed for
that. I can read a ledger.
I also know the family situation with
the Main Street gym. If we're if $500 to
a family uh tie type of business is
allowed, is is $600 okay? Is $1,000
okay? What if we get it up to $9
million? Are we supposed to bust a
revenue cap so that we can fund
whatever? I don't know. Depends on whose
relatives are in that entity. I'd settle
for just figuring out who's getting
those gift cards. Well, I didn't get
one. Did you? I did not get one. No. U
look, we have 10 major elected officials
in our county. We have seven council
members, one executive, uh, states
attorney, and a and a sheriff and and
you know, a lot of those folks do a a
wonderful job. But each of them did take
an oath and part of their oath is that
they'll uphold the county charter. Part
of holding upholding the county charter
is that when there's an ethics violation
or a misappropriation of funds, you have
to do something about it. You didn't
have to run for office. You chose to run
for office. People didn't have to vote
for you. They chose to vote for you.
Once you're there in office, I don't
care if you're the state's attorney. I
don't care if you're the sheriff,
councilman, or an executive. And I don't
care if we agree. That that that's not a
that's not going to happen all the time.
But if you take that oath and you even
have knowledge that the charter is being
broken and you sit and do nothing,
you're just as guilty. You are actually
you're Yeah. You're the complicit
accessory after the fact. Well, it's
like the analogy you used once a few
weeks ago. A cop sees somebody getting
shot. Yeah. And if he doesn't do
anything about the perpetrator, Yeah.
Darl should do it. And this
encourages more crime when there are no
consequences. And all too often in this
county in recent years in particular, so
it seems, there have been no
consequences when there have been
ethical violations or potential
violations of law. Um, I certainly do
hope that the county council will start
living up to their oath and taking
appropriate action when they know that
something is a miss. Well, when we go to
sit through the budget hearings that
we're going to have for the next 60 days
and ultimately by mid June actually have
a budget that may or may not include a
tax increase according to the county
executive. These are the questions that
all of us should be asking right now.
And if you have uh any elected officials
who are unwilling to ask those
questions, I I definitely think that uh
going to a county council meeting,
having your voice heard is it now is the
time unless you're willing to pay more.
And if you are, pay me pay my extra too.
Give me give me a gift card at least.
Mike, I I want to ask you, would you run
us through one example of what it would
look like for the revenue tax increase?
Sure. I'd be happy to. Okay. So, here's
how it works. We have a 2% revenue cap
in Wcomako County year. Now, let's just
assume that your home is assessed uh has
an assessed value of
$100,000 and that we have a tax rate of
90s per $100 of the assessed value. That
would generate a tax revenue of
$900. Now, let's fast forward to to the
next year, year two. Now, it's a good
assumption that the value of your home,
the assessed value is going to go up a
little bit. So, let's assume that it
went up to
$105,000 uh from $100,000. Now, if we
apply the same tax rate of 90 cents per
$100, you'd have to reduce it down from
90 cents per 100 down to
0.8742 cents per 100. And that will uh
lower your the tax that you pay to
$918 instead of
$945. So state that very simply as the
assessed value goes up then the tax rate
must come down in order to stay within
the 2% uh of uh increased revenue. Well
and the county executive saying that she
is not going to raise your taxes only
keep them the same to fund education is
disingenuous in the fact that because
the assessed value went up you still
will get an increase. The county still
will receive extra money, but just not
as much extra as possible unless she
bust the revenue. Well, she she recently
stated that she guarantees that your tax
rate will not go up. Well, of course,
the tax rate is not going to go up
because assessed values are going up.
So, the tax rate must come down. So when
she says she guarantees that the tax
rate won't go up does not mean that you
won't be uh you know paying more taxes
ultimately. Joe, how do you feel about
any elected official giving you a
guarantee? I'd be suspicious or what is
the old expression? Trust but verify.
Okay. But maybe not even that much. I
think verify but not through social
media. That's a great one. I'm going to
use that. When we come back on open
agenda, we're going to have Mike
Langford in the studio with us to
discuss Salsbury Housing and the Density
Project. So stay with us. We'll be right
back. Welcome back to Open Agenda. I'm
your host Joe White. In the studio with
me is Mr. Mike Langford from Salsbury.
Dr. Joe Venosa. Gentlemen, thanks for
being in here. Thank you for having me.
Thank So, uh, Mike, we we asked you to
come in because we want to talk about
the Salsbury City Council me, uh,
business regarding density and, uh, you
know, what's your background and and you
seem to know a lot about it. I've seen
you on Facebook. What what gives you as
much background as you have? Um, well,
I've always been in invested in housing.
I used to volunteer back in college up
in Baltimore at um at a homeless shelter
on the west end. I've always been
engaged in that issue. Um, more
recently, I was working for Habitat for
Humanity like two and a half years ago
before I got my current job as a
property manager of College Park
Apartments, which is located within the
city limits. So, you're pretty well
verssed on on both sides of of of you
know, managing properties and as a
citizen here right in Salsbury. Yeah.
And definitely uh you know, personally,
I've also experienced homelessness. So,
I feel like I bring that experience of
caring about uh what happens to people
who where things aren't always going
well in your life, right? So, uh, you
know, talk a little bit about the
transparency level right now with the
Salsbury city government. Um, we know
that the county government and the city
government are are in the process of
splitting their planning and zoning. Uh,
so there's it's not going to be a
combined effort sometime later this
summer as we've as we've heard. Um, have
you have you seen a lack of transparency
with the process with like even the the
uh the density increase for the S the
central business district? I think um
it's I think the city in general uh has
a communication issue. I've seen other
community members very concerned about
like the email lists of like sending out
briefing packets before meetings. Just
being able to, you know, of course
everyone who lives in the city or in the
county is not paying attention, but when
people ask and want to be engaged, I
think it's uh to the detriment if you
make that process harder. So Joe, you
you attend many city council meetings. I
mean, speak a little bit about what what
Mike's talking about as far as the
processes as a citizen yourself. I mean,
you're a homeowner. Well, you know,
we've gone through a lot of, for a
better word, drama over the last couple
years regarding, as as you said, this
this real lack of transparency and uh
this there seems to be a perception, I
think, outside of the city council
chamber that um the city council
specifically has
really made moves
to disincentivize public comments,
public attendance at meetings, and even
just general input. Um, we saw a recent
example of this, in fact, this past week
when a local citizen, I believe his name
is Mr. Riley Smith, um, you know, went
in and and and really, uh, you know,
took the city council president to the
cleaners on the fact that, um, he has
this habit, it seems, of purging names
off of email lists to inform citizens
about what's going to be on the briefing
book and the agenda. We've heard that
from several folks. Yeah, this is not an
anomaly by any means. Yeah. I mean, and
these are folks that regularly attend
the meetings. They actually they're they
are the biggest civic minded sort of
involved people in the in the in the
community. And and most of those folks
are open-minded folks. They're just
really trying to get other people to
show up and voice whatever their opinion
is, not tell them what their opinion
should be. No. And it's a diverse group
of people in terms of their background,
their views, where they're coming from.
Um, you know, it's again, you know, you
can make fun of it because you're, you
know, it's you're sort of like a local
civics nerd for doing it, but I think
there's great value in that,
particularly as we've talked about when
these issues, and we've talked about
this all the time, local government has
such an important impact on your direct
everyday life. So, we we're going to
talk about Matt Drew's comments at the
last city council meeting, but before we
do, I think we should back up for anyone
out there who maybe doesn't watch this
on a regular basis. Uh about 2 years
ago, Salsbury City Apartments came to
the the board of appeals. Uh now, the
board of appeals is different than the
planning and zoning commission. They're
two different ones. They they both deal
with zoning. Planning and zoning
basically plans out and sets the rules.
Board of Appeals is the one you're going
to get variances on. Um and and a
variance is different than an exception.
Uh and we're going to talk about that in
a second. So, Salsbury City Apartments
wanted to build the the the downtown
apartments that they're proposing in the
in the parking lots. Uh the they went to
the board of appeals and they were
turned down and they appealed that to
the circuit court, Judge Jackson. Judge
Jackson said, uh listen, you you can't
grant an exception from the board of
appeals. Uh you could do a variance, but
not an exception to density. So, and
then it was actually appealed again and
it was sent back. So, then the developer
from Salsbury City Apartments took a
step back. They went to then planning
and zoning to ask for a text amendment
which is a is a legal process to to
circumvent the the current rules and and
implement new ones.
That process we covered back in November
of 2024 that seemed very staged. Uh many
many people spoke most against it. The
ones who spoke for it were somehow tied
to the developer and then they voted 6
to1 instantly. They passed it. It went
through two readings at city council.
They passed it u unfortunately 4 to1. Uh
Randy Taylor of course vetoed it and the
city council still pushed it. All right.
So that's the history. Yeah, the current
is now the the county and the city are
splitting their their planning z and
Matt Drew's point and we can we can
discuss this is that because there is a
a uh a fivemon window that this is going
to happen that there is no process for a
variance but that's not accurate. Is
that right? Um yeah I what what is odd
is that we're we're not they're not
dissolving the planning and zoning.
they're merely separating them. So, um
there is still going to be a process for
them to get that variance. They may not
be able to in the immediate, but it's
like it's not like they have to wait
years for this. They don't even have to
wait a year. It's a couple months. Uh
Mr. Drew is proposing a a completely new
and unprecedented
uh system for us to approve variances
through the city council. Now, is this
the three three-step process that he
laid out? Yeah, in his comments he laid
out a three-fold which would involve
public uh comment and all. My my issue
is there's a reason why these issues are
not typically handled by the legislative
body. Well, and so just so everyone out
there knows in his three-step proposal,
he he outlines basically giving much
more power to the city uh council for
making text amendment changes. So they
would they would almost change the rules
of engagement, right? Yeah. So it's a
great they they would have le they would
they wouldn't have to go to say the
board of appeals or planning and zoning
as they have in the past to get what
they wanted for a developer in the
future. So Joe, I mean, someone who
taxpayer in the in the city and and
someone who watches this often, how
would you feel about almost taking out a
little bit of that check and balance and
handing over the keys to just one
legislative entity? Well, I'd feel
pretty worried and I'd feel even more
worried if I found out that there were
um political or financial connections
between certain elected officials and
certain developers that perhaps could
benefit from it. Okay, so let's let's
state the facts on Matt Drew. I mean he
is on the planning and zoning a member
in good standing. He is also a member of
the greater Salsbury committee. Is that
correct? Those are accurate statements.
Yes. So uh the greater salbury committee
took an active role in increase in the
density in the in the central business
district. The only project that seems to
be out there right now is the the
Mitchell's Landing apartments.
How do you think that that might tie
into his his abrupt request for a change
in how we do text amendments in the
future? Well, again, I'm only
speculating, but there are a lot of
similar connections to the people
involved. Um, first off, I I just want
to state this is my own observation, but
I firmly believe that Mr. Drew did not
actually write the comments that he gave
at city council. I believe those were
written by someone else. And if you
actually watch the clip where he talks,
there's actually a
very big tell. um in that process. Now,
again, that's that's just But what's the
tell? Well, the tell is that as he reads
it, and I've watched enough students in
in my years give public speaking to sort
of tell when they're reading something
that a friend wrote or that they got
maybe from chat GPT. Um, and there's a
there's a moment there where as he's
reading it, you can see he actually
himself is surprised by the text that
he's reading. Uh, and so my my
assumption is that somebody else wrote
it. I I have my theories as to who that
is. If we're gonna audit his class, we
need to know that the doctor knows
definitely.
So, so Mike, uh, you know, you you you
state that you you come from an area you
understand homelessness. You've been
somebody who has supported the arts, the
the the the fabric of this community.
Um, how how does it make you feel when
when you find out that maybe the power
is being consolidated into a smaller
smaller unit? It it honestly concerns me
not even because of like people's I
think a lot of times people read in like
an insinuation of malicious intent but
the thing about abuse is a lot of times
it's circumstantial. It's when there's
unintended consequences unintended
consequences for people where there
where it's just uh having a lot of power
invested in the few. We've seen time
again through history Joe I'm sure Joe
can give us a million examples of why
that's a bad idea. So, what questions do
you want to get answered before anyone
even really considers Matt Drew's
three-step proposal?
I' I'd just like to hear a little bit
more forthrightness as to why this is so
necessary. I'm very curious as to the
press to create a new procedure to
approve variances or exceptions at all.
Um, why that's necessary. I guess that
would be one of my first is is like what
is deeming this necessary? What was the
impetus for this chain of action?
Whenever you're doing something in
government, you need a precedent. So
what is the precedent? What is the
impetus? What's the motivation? And I
think we'll find a motivation as Joe was
saying when we follow money. So when so
how do you think we go about this, Joe?
Well, following the money is always I
think an important thing and I'd be very
curious if we are able to find out at
some point in the future. Um, for
example, uh, is anyone locally
connected, uh, to the company that is
currently, uh, involved with the
rehabilitation of those homes, that
project? Because, uh, in the last
financial cycle, um, the Secretary of
Housing, right, former mayor Jake Day,
provided a
$250,000, uh, grant check uh, to Homes
for America Incorporated. And um while
we don't necessarily have a connection
yet, I think again I'm just asking
questions and I think the public needs
to know is there a connection between
anyone locally uh involved in the
Greater Salsbury Committee and Mr. Drew
and um this entity? So do you do you
foresee an opportunity at the public
hearings? I mean Matt Drew talked about
having a workshop or work session. Um
you know I'm not sure what the rules are
this week for the city council. Are you
are you given 2 minutes, 3 minutes? Uh
let's see. Well, it it depends on uh
what they try and what they retract. Um
as of right now, um officially 3 minutes
per citizen. No pre-screening
uh in the sense of, you know, uh online
forms. Online forms. So you an actual
citizen can just go up and say their
piece. So, you know, unless the city
council president changes his mind or
tries to change something again, I
believe any citizen can go to the next
meeting and then their meetings are
every other Monday and at the government
office building, right? Yes. Okay. Yeah.
So, Mike, thanks for coming out. I
appreciate you coming to speak about
this. And would you be willing to come
back on the show and give us updates as
as the story unfolds more? Absolutely.
Thank you for having me. You're very
welcome. Thanks for watching this
segment of Open Agenda.
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