You're watching Open Agenda. Here's our
host, Joe White.
>> Welcome to Open Agenda. I'm your host,
Joe White. In the studio with me today
is Joe Scafino from Salsbury, Mr. Mike
Goldberg from Delmare. Thank you,
gentlemen, for joining me.
>> Of course.
>> So, uh, Mike, just yesterday you were
out at the airport and you were able to
see the ribbon cutting and the unveiling
of the new, uh, aviation mechanic school
for me out at the Salsbury Wakamako
airport, right?
>> I was indeed. It was uh it was really
nice to see that we have this
educational facility um that's I think
it's going to serve our region very
well. To me, one of the best things
about it is that we won't have to import
the talent from elsewhere to maintain
aircraft uh at the uh Salsbury airport.
Um we'll be able to take people from
this area, train them, give them a job,
and they'll stay. they won't go
elsewhere. And that's been, I think, one
of the biggest problems we've had is
that young people go across the bay to
get educated and all too often they
don't come back and contribute to our
local economy. This will help.
>> Pedmont Airlines, they donated uh one of
the airplanes to school, right?
>> Yes. Uh they had a couple of Rolls-Royce
engines. Um and uh uh they have a uh
it's an Ember um jet. um they've
replaced replace that particular model
with a new model. Uh but these uh these
students will be able to break that
thing down to every last nut and bolt
and these engines too, you know, that
they can work on and rebuild it. And you
know, these are modern um contemporary
uh uh technologies and it'll really help
them to learn their trade. So Joe, you
were at the last county council meeting
and uh uh we were waiting for some
updates from like theou with ICE and uh
instead we got some legislative work
sessions about chickens and that sort of
thing. I want to bring in Bob Taylor and
uh you know he used to be the county
council's attorney and I want to find
out just his feelings on some of the hot
topics that came up uh particularly from
someone with a law background. and I
know you do as well, but if you would
after we interview him, would you come
back in and and I want to just follow up
with you on some of the stuff he has to
say?
>> Sure.
>> All right. So, stay with us. When we
come back, we're going to bring in Bob
Taylor and talk about the last county
council meeting. Stay with us. We'll be
right back.
>> Welcome back to Open Agenda. In the
studio with me now is Mr. Bob Taylor
from Salsbury.
>> Good morning, Captain.
>> And Mr. Mike Goldberg from Delmare.
Thank you, gentlemen, for both being
here.
>> Yes, sir. So, uh, Bob, so on Tuesday
16th was the last county council
meeting. I want to talk about some of
the updates we received, some of the
ones we didn't. Let's talk about theou
with ICE.
>> Yeah. Well, what we what we didn't
receive was any further information from
the county executive uh or the sheriff
for that matter about um where things
stand with this uh purported with with
ICE. Um, I want to correct myself from
our last episode on this when I assumed
that theou was a done deal. Uh, and I
might point out I was not alone. I'm
actually in pretty good company. Uh,
there's an article that was in the WOC,
Congressman Harris praises Wcomako
County's new partnership with ICE. He
also apparently assumed that it was a
done deal. And that may be because of a
press release that was released by the
county executive a few days earlier.
It's dated September 4. Uh Wamako County
announces intent to move forward with
ICE warrant service officer model.
Doesn't specifically say there's a done
deal, but when you look at the tense of
the verbiage, uh it sounds awfully much
like there is. And like I say, it's
taken at least a couple of us by the by
the hook. and and and we've gone on the
ICE website and there is no application
for
>> That's right. I checked it this morning.
It's still not listed as a done deal.
They have a list of I think it's over a
thousand now uh differentus around the
country. And there's also a second list
of um pending applications that have
been filed. Wakcomo County is not listed
on either.
>> Okay. Um, now at the meeting you
referred to on Tuesday, the county
executive was uh present at a work
session uh after they uh ended their
business meeting. There was plenty of
opportunity for the county council
members, some of whom are are agitated
that she hasn't provided more
information, but nobody asked any
questions.
>> Well, I mean, they they asked they
talked they talked about chickens. Yeah,
chickens were were a matter of some
import. I'll get to that, but uh just to
kind of bring up to date on theou a
little bit and it's purportedou.
It is for what they call the um uh
warrant service officer WSO
part of the uh 287 uh G.
>> It's one of the three options.
>> One of the three options. It's the
lesser lower in terms of activity by the
sheriff's department. All they would do
would be serve warrants on persons who
are incarcerated in the jail.
>> Yeah.
>> Um before before they're released for
whatever ground the release might be. It
wouldn't involve anything out on the
street. It wouldn't involve as far as I
can determine and this is why I would
like to get more information uh to run
this to ground. It wouldn't involve much
time or cost that I can see. We saw
Trish Melvin actually made a
presentation where she talked about some
of the the reimbursement and how they
how they calculate that overtime and the
rate.
>> Patricia Melvin uh district 7 in Wcomako
County.
I talked previously um about the 287G
program and since then there's been some
changes both locally and and at the
national level. So, I want to revise my
statements and uh bring the information
up to date. You know, it occurred to me
that we're really crowdsourcing
this information. Um doing our best and
anything that I am reporting here, you
know, please tell me if you're finding
something different. Um
one thing I want to say, I've heard it
said uh publicly that we have anou.
I want to state that having anou is not
the same thing as having a signedou.
So I I've not heard it said that we have
a signed but possibly anou exists. So uh
what I want to u update you on is that
uh initially why county was considering
the broader jail enforcement model and
ultimately moved over to the warrant
service officer model.
Um
the model that involved taking people
off the street was never really
considered for the 287. Um but ICE will
is still doing that.
Uh the WSO model is much narrower in
scope than JM officers only undergo one
day of training probably on site.
Um now one big change is that because I
talked about how none of this is
reimbured federally. Um I think the day
I said that DHS came out with an
announcement that they will uh do a
reimbursement
and what they say is that they uh
participating agencies will receive full
coverage for the salary and benefits of
trained officers including up to 25% in
overtime. So that sounds pretty good.
Um, but you have to keep in mind that,
you know, our officers have a full-time
job and so in theory, you know, that's
why they do specify overtime.
Uh, so in theory, this work would be
done on overtime.
Um, you know, sheriff's deputies, uh,
this the reimbursement is only for ICE
work, not for local law enforcement.
Doesn't change how the officers paid,
but rather how the local agency is
compensated by the federal government.
um reimbursements paid annually.
Localities will still be responsible for
the jail for the food, jail, housing.
There is a separate program that covers
that SCAP, but it's it's not been fully
funded and only covers a fraction of the
cost. On the back, I have calculations
um as to how much time would be covered
with some theoretical examples. The
first example is where the uh officer
works an average of eight hours a week.
Um he would not be fully well the county
would not be fully compensated for that
full amount. But if the officer worked
about 6 hours a week, the reimbursement
would be full. So the break even point
is just under seven hours a week of
overtime.
Um, and at least according to her
calculations, the a sheriff's officer
could could work seven hours of overtime
and and fit within that
>> well reimbursement. We really don't
know.
>> Well, I mean, at least trying to figure
it out logically, and I could be wrong,
the warrants would come down from ICE to
here and then a sheriff's deputy would
pick it up and go serve it in the jail.
Bob, since it is a federal warrant that
would be served, would that not require
that the sheriff's deputy is, for lack
of a better term, certified by federal
law enforcement to serve that warrant?
So, it wouldn't be any, as I understand
it, it wouldn't be just any deputy, but
somebody who has certified.
There is a, as I understand it, and this
is off the uh website of ICE, there's a
day uh required of instruction and that
would be held, I'm pretty sure, at the
ICE uh facility in Baltimore. Uh they
would have to go there and might have to
spend a night, you know, there'd be some
cost uh and they'd lose a day of of
their normal activity. Uh but that would
be it. Um, and so I, so as far as I can
tell, it's pretty minimal in that
regard.
>> Can you speculate
why this has not moved forward? I mean,
they've sort of announced that it is.
Congressman Harris believed it had. What
What could possibly be holding this up?
>> I can offer thoughts. I'm not going to
say assume. I'm just kind of speculating
here at this point.
um all of the other counties in Maryland
that have an MOU, it's with the
sheriff's office. And in those counties,
the sheriff runs the jail. There are
eight of them altogether. They're pretty
much uh conservative.
Several of them are Republican majority
counties. Um and here, however, the
sheriff does not run the jail. It's a
county department. So, I think there may
be something there that could be holding
this up.
>> Well, since the the sheriff and the
county executive seem to be on the same
page on this,
and you would think that they would be
easily able to come to an agreement or
anou between the sheriff's office and
the executive's office to allow the use
of the detention facility for this
purpose. Um, so it's not making any
sense to me why that hasn't happened
because they're certainly not by all
appearances on opposite uh, you know,
polar ends of of this issue. It seems
that they both want it.
>> That's that's why I'd like to have more
information as would I think a lot of
other people here in the county.
>> But the information we did get this past
meeting was about some suggestions that
the county executive proposed about
chickens and regulating chickens. Right.
>> Okay. We want to go back shift to the uh
chickens in the backyard.
>> Well, it's only a half an hour show. So,
>> okay. Yeah. Well,
>> we could we could talk 30 minutes about
ice or we can talk about other things.
>> The the county executive has initiated
this and it was discussed at a work
session on Tuesday. Um, and I think it
grows out of a couple of things that
have happened. First, they've found a uh
cockfighting ring uh here in the county.
Apparently she indicated this. I have no
particulars about it. So and then
secondly there was another incident
where someone with same type situation
few just a few chickens. We're not
talking about commercial broiler houses
here and they had gotten out and they
were freeranging uh along uh other
neighbors lots in a in a subdivision. Um
so she wants to say how can we address
this? We need something. uh sort of
asking the council, it seemed, well,
what do you want? What do you want to
do? Um to me, well, there's a couple
things. First of all, if you think
there's a problem and you think you need
legislation, why not propose some
legislation?
>> That's not what this was.
>> No, that this was just kind of a general
chitchat almost. Um so uh one thing that
was not mentioned during the discussion
was the fact that there are already a
fair amount of state laws. Uh some of
them specifically address poultry. Some
of them specifically address just
animals in general. Uh the criminal code
for example of the Maryland state code
uh provides for a whole range of
offenses which are punishable by
criminal uh involving animals and
chickens qualify as animals under this
statute. So uh for example cockfighting
that which is one of the things that has
been discovered apparently that's a
crime. So there's there are laws already
in place
>> and there's also general legislation
under the criminal code about the
condition and treatment of animals. Um
now it's it's very general and it just
says for instance you have to provide
adequate uh facilities for them adequate
nourishment. Uh it just says proper and
if you'll recall maybe 10 years ago we
had a situation here involving horses.
Yeah,
number number of I don't know where it
was exactly
>> in He
>> but there were a number of them and
apparently they were in very poor
condition.
>> So one of the interesting things I found
from the work session was the county
executive actually even posed as a
possibility of giving money out to
lowincome families so they could build
enclosures like grants and that sort of
thing. Uh wouldn't this expand
government and their reach? Wouldn't
this make it a larger institution if
we're starting to actually send our
government to people's homes to talk
about
>> Yeah.
>> ticket closures?
>> I don't want to get too much in the
weeds because apparently this was in
something that was handed out at the
meeting.
>> Yes.
>> Was not in the briefing book and I don't
really know if it's just sort here's an
idea. Well, let's let's talk about this.
I don't know to the extent that the
county executive was saying let's do
this. I have it and it was just
interesting to me that uh from a
conservative standpoint this would
actually increase the cost of the
government and uh and increase their
reach uh into people's lives. I mean I
agree with you that there are already
regulations of how to treat animals, how
to treat wild animals. If you want to
have even a mass-produced chicken farm,
there's definitely a lot of regulations
for that. But uh this just seems just
like so much overreach. Now, the problem
of freeranging chickens that get loose
and go around the neighborhood, that
could possibly be a nuisance matter. We
have a a nuisance statute on the books
also, but uh I think the county
executive was suggesting that there be a
finite limit of the number of chickens
that one could have in their backyard.
Let's say we're not, again, we're not
talking about commercial boiler raising
here, so let's not mix it up. Um, and it
would apparently be tied to the size of
the lot. To
>> to me, it's not so much the number of
chickens, but if they're freeranging,
are they creating a public nuisance? You
know, some time ago, a couple of my
neighbors chickens got into my yard.
They tore up some landscaping
>> chickens. So, uh, we also had, uh, some
some talk about signage and the right of
ways.
>> Yeah, that was another thing. Again, she
brought it up. Uh, and again, I think
it's a legitimate topic. I'm not
criticizing, uh, the county executive
for bringing it up because as you drive
around, and there's some photos that are
actually in the briefing book about
this, you'll see corners, particularly
street intersections where there are
massive signs for everything under the
sun. karate
uh house I buy houses type thing with
phone numbers uh oft times uh for sub
subdivisions where there homes for sale
Ryan homes and whatnot uh and as far as
I'm concerned that should be just
illegal and we shouldn't have that.
>> All right and I want to ask you about a
update on the menus lawsuit on lot 10.
uh there was a ruling to not give the
temporary uh injunction uh for that but
that does not mean that the case was
dismissed.
>> I think it's important to mention this
because there was again a news report
that was very misleading. Uh it
suggested that the the city this is a
city now it's a city suit uh cannot get
an injunction
uh regarding the parking lot 10 that's
the parking lot where the flea market
used to be held.
>> Yes. Um it's about not quite three acres
I think altogether. Um and under the
land disposition agreement, the contract
on which the city sold it for I think
about $25,000 an acre. Uh it provided
that the city could continue to use it
for parking, public parking until the
new owner developer was ready to do
something to to build on it. Uh the
proposal was to do a hotel convention
center. Well, what happened was since
then, a couple of years ago that the
sale occurred,
um the state has provided a grant of I
think it's $4 million
towards this project, this proposed
project. Uh the mayor, Randy Taylor, no
relation, thinks that that is supposed
to be for let's call it public
infrastructure, not for private
infrastructure for the project itself.
And there's an ongoing and has been an
ongoing dispute between him, the city
that is the mayor and the developer, a
fellow named Nick Simpson, somebody may
capital.
>> Yeah. The same one that did the Ross or
was involved in it. And uh in May, uh
Simpson says, "Well, if you're not going
to give me my money, the money, then I'm
just going to close it uh to the city."
Um he then has subsequently negotiated a
deal with the county executive for the
county to pay him for parking privileges
for county personnel whereas previously
they had been paying the city for that.
>> So that's kind of where all that stands.
The city then filed a lawsuit oh month
month and a half ago I think to enjoin
that and under uh injunction uh
litigation you can ask for what's called
a temporary restraining order to
essentially immediately stop what it is
you're trying to enjoin. Now the hearing
on last Friday was just about that just
about the temporary restraining order.
>> Yes. And what it turned on was one of
the factors that you have to show to get
a TTRO is that if you don't get it, what
happens in between the time that it's
denied and the time that the actual
injunction is granted, assuming it's
granted, that there will be some harm
that can't be remedied, that be
irreparable. The judge felt that and the
and the uh developer attorney argued
this that well, it's just loss of money.
It's that money that was formerly coming
to the city uh to pay for parking spaces
that is now going to the developer and
that can be cured by just a civil
lawsuit.
>> Yeah. Later on.
>> Later on. Yeah. So it wasn't irreparable
in the judges.
>> So So the the whole case has not been
dismissed. It's just that temporary
restraining order.
>> And I I understand a hearing is going to
be set fairly soon, probably the next
couple or three months for the for the
main injunction. And and finally, I I
want to talk about you talk about the
county executive. Uh and this came up at
the county council meeting last Tuesday.
Uh she still has a a Trump sign in her
window and the city of Salsbury's
complained about it. It it sits out over
Division Street onto Route 50, Business
50. Uh it's in her office, correct? Uh I
yeah I have it on I haven't seen it
personally but I have several use
usually reliable sources tells me that
it's still there and it says Trump and I
think there's something down below that
says make America great again or words
to that something like that. Um and my
again my understanding is from sources
that she's saying well I don't really
have it posted in my window to display
it to the public. It's just a political
memorabilia that I have and I just have
it sitting on my windowsill.
>> Yeah. Facing out to be seen from the
street, not to be seen from the interior
of her office.
>> Might be a two-sided sign.
>> It might, but I wonder if she kept one
of the signs that did not have an
authority line from uh the 204 election.
So, I I don't know,
>> just for me memorabilia purposes. So,
>> and again, something like this came up a
few years ago. It's probably about 15
years ago now under our first county
executive
where someone in his office was using
county facilities to campaign for him.
It was a very minor type of campaigning,
but we looked into that and that is
actually prohibited by state law. Yeah.
>> Now, whether putting a memorabilia sign
in your window
uh is using county assets for political
purposes, uh that might be a stretch. I
don't know. Um but it seems to me that
at the very least it's in very very bad
taste and judgment. Look, in the 2024
election, she was the county executive
was using the county's vehicle, an
unmarked county vehicle to deliver her
campaign signs to election sites.
>> So, there's a little bit of a history
here with this type of behavior.
>> Could be over the line that could be,
you know,
>> we have the pictures and
>> we got the photographic evidence of it.
No question.
>> Thanks. Thanks for following us up with
with all of this information and uh if
we would like to have you back out to
give us an update when we hear more
about the Memphis lawsuit and uh theou
with ICE.
>> As they say, tomorrow is another day.
>> Well, stay with us. When we come back,
we're going to bring in Joe Scafino and
we're going to find out just what he
thinks about some of these subjects. So
stay with us. We'll be right back.
Welcome back to Open Agenda. In the
studio with me now is Josephino from
Salsbury. Thanks for coming back, Mr.
Mike Goldberg. Thanks for sticking
around.
>> Sure. I couldn't find the escape hatch.
>> Well, you've tried every week and we've
had it locked every time. So, you know,
Bob had a lot of updates. Uh, and
unfortunately for a lot of those topics,
they're either there's not much more
information uh or there's incomplete
information, right? Uh let's let's talk
about theou with ICE. Uh at the last
county council meeting, we still had
some more folks show up and and speak
out against it. Uh there are some folks
like Mike and I who actually do agree
with it to some degree, but we just
don't have many answers. Jeff,
>> well, I've been an outspoken opponent of
of uh ICE coming into the county uh for
their immigration sweeps and because we
don't have information, we don't know
the extent of
what what they're planning. Um I I did
an editorial opinion that that has been
recently published and uh I closed it by
saying you know the the model that
that's been proposed this warrant
service to serve arrest warrants on
people with criminal warrants. I
absolutely support that and I think most
people support that. I think the biggest
fear is, you know, we see on on Tik Tok,
on Instagram, on the evening news, uh we
see people just snatched off the street
by masked
uh agents, unidentified, stuffed into
cars.
>> But that's not what's happening here.
And I think there's been a lot of
misinformation out there. The warrant
service uh officer program from my
understanding is limited to um warrants
being served to an illegal immigrant who
has already been incarcerated and there
are federal charges pending.
>> But don't you want the people who are
actually signing this to come and say
exactly that? Well, of course,
>> because that's I mean, look, if someone
is against it
to some degree, that's exactly you you
want to be able to give them the
information to say, "Hey, if these are
the boundaries, this is the guard rails,
are you okay? Can you be okay with
this?" I mean, there has to be
compromise at some point.
>> But this is the recurring theme, the
lack of transparency coming out of the
executive branch of our government. It
has not been discussed in public. The
only public forum available for open
discussion is the county council at
county council meetings.
>> They don't know anything.
>> They they not only have not only have
they not been informed, but they also
have no authority. That doesn't mean
that it can't that the sheriff and the
executive cannot attend a meeting and
discuss these issues. Thus far, neither
has, you know, opted to do so. But we
what we did get was this to talk about
chickens and and and Mike, I want to ask
you the talk about possibly funding
other folks getting their chickens
pinned in. Is this something that you
think our county executive should even
be worrying about?
>> No, absolutely not. And you know, you
you just can't have government involved
in funding
things in the private sector like that.
This is not a legitimate function of
government. Our government's supposed to
be limited. Protect our shores, deliver
our mail, and stay the heck out of our
business. That's just how I feel.
>> Do you feel like I mean, you prior to
going into the whole landfill debacle
that, you know, was going to close on
Saturdays and close on Tuesdays,
it seemed like we we had a lot of smokec
screen. Do you feel like talking about
chickens is like somehow a diversion
from the bigger issues? I I think there
are some far uh more uh serious issues
facing this county. Chickens has got to
be, you know, pretty close to the bottom
of the list in my opinion.
>> It's not on the first page. Let's go
there. It
>> certainly isn't.
>> What about the Trump sign in the
executives window? I mean, what what
what's your opinion on that?
>> Absolutely not permissible in my opin.
It's it's government property. And I
mean, everything I've ever read, you
can't use government property,
government facilities for campaign
purposes. It's crystal clear.
>> I couldn't agree with you more. Look, I
voted for Trump, but I think that that
is improper to have that signposted for,
you know, for all.
>> What what really surprises me, I mean,
the county executive, she's she's not a
dumb person. I mean, she she's actually
very intelligent. She's pretty intense.
So, she's picking fights like putting a
campaign sign that she knows isn't
right. She's not putting a decal on a
car that every other municipality county
in the country identifies. So, I don't
understand why she's picked this.
>> Especially someone who 48% of the people
last November actually voted to just
remove her office completely.
>> And uh she downplays that a lot. And
look, you either win or you lose and and
and we did not win question A, but it's
not like she won it by a landslide here.
Correct. And having any political sign u
it's just further division. So when you
start to partial parcel up a piece of a
piece of a piece, you only end up
representing in such a small sliver. And
and then we saw that with Councilman W's
comments that there's only a very small
sliver that is actually represented by
some of these folks in in office. And
when they really once you're elected,
you represent everybody.
>> Exactly.
>> You just the the executive just does not
seem to believe that she is subject to
the same laws and ordinances and uh
standards of conduct that the rest of us
are. And this I find deeply deeply
concerning.
>> That's the appearance. Well, thank you
both. I appreciate your diligence on
this and I hope to see you at the next
council meeting. Right.
>> We will.
>> Well, thanks for watching this episode
of Open Agenda. We'll be back later this
week with another new episode.
Praise the Lord, Pastor Chicken.
