You're watching Open Agenda. Here's our
host, Joe White.
Welcome to Open Agenda. I'm your host,
Joe White. In the studio with me now is
Mr. Trish Melvin from Fruitland.
>> Mr. Jim Atkins from Mardella. Thank you
both for being here.
>> Sure.
>> So, we were all three in attendance at
the last county council meeting last
Tuesday. And one of the things we
haven't covered yet is they tabled two
resolutions to combine positions in
public works to create one new position.
Uh specifically the litter coordinator.
>> And Trish, I know that you you were at
that meeting. Um but did you did you
really understand really the the
movement of what was going on?
>> I can't say that I did. Part of it's my
fault because when we start talking
about the landfill, you know, I do kind
of glaze over a little bit because I'm
not up todate on all the facts and I I
have trouble following the facts because
I hear um new positions, consolidated
positions, open positions, and I don't
know where we are at one point in time.
So, I didn't catch it all. It
>> it it it's easy to glaze over it because
it is it's a lot of numbers. I think
that the thing is when when you go to
take your trash out, if they don't pick
your trash up because the landfill is
closed, people would stop glazing over
pretty quickly.
>> Um Jim, you don't miss very many
meetings in a year. Uh you and I have
have seen this this work through since
really February when they started
combining a couple positions.
>> Mike Suavey, the deput the former deputy
director of public works, gave a
presentation in in March. So the
question is in the fiscal environment
we're we're in, how can the county
provide this level of support to ensure
that education, research, collection,
and disposal remains sustainable. Now,
we we've had multiple discussions uh
between uh the county and and Wcomo
Clean and they did uh give us a draft of
what the job role could look like and
the recycling coordinator's scope of
work being reduced by something that
takes a lot of attention and time. I
believe that the recycling coordinator
will be able to give the litter program
its due and and bring it to the next
level because she's already trained in
and very successfully conducts these
types of activities. So if we look at
this in a fiscally conservative way,
we should conduct a costneutral move of
moving two positions into one, keeping
the salary the same as those two
positions were. That's done. slightly
shift the program duties for which there
is an existing position that's done
effective April 2nd document the
commitment to council the public and to
MDE that's done with the 10-year plan
with a 2-year follow-up intermittently
throughout the 10 years
with the duty realignment in place
expecting no additional cost vice
president of the council Jeff Merritt uh
uh referenced that on Tuesday's meeting
again someone like Trish may not have
understood that came from.
>> Um, what I think we ought to do is bring
in Mike Goldberg because Mike has been
following us from the landfill side and
public works is roads and landfill
amongst some other things too. But those
are the two major ones that that people
in the county know. Um, I think we
should bring Mike in and and and go
through some of that history and then
I'd like to bring you back in Trish and
just see what you found out.
>> Okay. All right. Sounds good.
>> So stay with us. When we come back,
we're actually going to give you some of
the history of the position
consolidation in public works. So stay
with us. We'll be right back.
Welcome back to Open Agenda. In the
studio with us now is Mr. Mike Goldberg
from Delmare. Thank you for coming out.
>> Yes, sir.
>> Mr. Jim Atkins, thanks for sticking
around.
>> Sure. Sure.
>> So, we saw at the last county council
meeting last Tuesday that they tabled uh
an a resolution that was brought to them
by the public works department. This
evaluation has been completed and we are
recommending that we um implement a uh
the title of a community litter
coordinator. Um we are looking to it
would be a new position. So it is a new
position um control number. It is a new
title and thus we are asking for it to
be funded uh from contingency to start
in um on October 2nd with the next pay
period. Yep.
>> Looking back at the minutes from the
work session that we had back in March,
um when we talked about this, it it says
that the duties for this position were
going to be reassigned to other uh
employees. And so there'd be no
additional cost to the county.
And I guess I'll quote this. I believe
the fiscally intelligent thing to do
would be recognize these duties, but
that's all been done and to have the
existing recycling coordinator take on
the work. Um, I think there's been some
personnel changes over there in the past
several days.
Do you think we should pause this until
we get a better handle on what's going
on over there? the recycling coordinator
position is in the uh solid waste
division which is a fully funded oper um
enterprise fund. So as such
um
ultimately even if we eliminated a
position at solid waste which they after
further re-evaluation since that period
of time since that work session they
feel they still need the recycling
coordinator position. Even if we had
eliminated the position at solid waste,
the general fund would have had to
increase because you can't transfer
between solid waste and general fund
because solid waste funds itself.
>> And and I want to explain to everybody
exactly what happened and and why that
happened because this is something
they've done before. Uh specifically
this time they tabled combining two
positions to create the litter
coordinator. And uh you know Jim, you've
been at most of the meetings and and
Mike, you've seen them too. The Wakamico
Clean Group has really stepped it up.
They've been out there. They've they've
they've taken control, right?
>> With a fantastic group of volunteers are
keeping our roadsides clean.
>> Bruce Robson, uh, Councilman Jeff
Merritt's part of it. Uh, Muel Dalene,
James Dene. We
>> I mean, they get out there and they I
mean, they're weighing their the trash
that they're picking up by the ton, not
by the bag.
So they they they were going to talk
about and we we started this
conversation back in March of 2025 with
a presentation that um deputy director
of public works Mike Suavey presented to
the council in a work session about
combining two positions from public
works to create a litter coordinator.
And specifically they were thinking of
of using the the the lady in the county
who already is the recycling
coordinator.
And uh and and this is a situation where
they taken two mid-level salaries,
combined them together, and were able to
get someone who's got more experience
and and supervisory type of role to
coordinate the litter pickup,
specifically safety, picking up the
litter once it's been collected, and
also directing, you know, outreach, you
know, that's like education and and that
sort of thing.
>> They had just done this, Jim, right,
back in February. Um,
>> that was one of the things that that the
council kept talking to the executive
group about when they were addressing
the public that they needed wanted to
see a litter coordinator and they were
told at that time that uh there would be
a litter coordinator appointed.
>> Okay. So now when they when they did a
similar maneuver back in February at the
landfill, they took two operator
positions that had not been filled for
many years uh or for several months at
least. And they combined them into an
environmental uh compliance technician.
And it's actually someone I've gotten to
interview uh Carissa Gorts uh who works
at the landfill now. She collects all
the data and I actually got a chance to
to see all the data points that she
collects from all the different uh test
wells and and and all the compliance.
She she handles that. So that worked out
well within the landfill itself. That's
part of public works. But this was th
there was a issue here and director of
finance Pam Olen brought up the fact
that the landfill is an enterprise fund
and the roads is not.
>> And although they both fall under public
works, they're two different accounts.
>> So the the compliance director that or
the environmental compliance technician
they hired was just in the landfill.
That was fine. But because this litter
coordinator would actually work in
roads, they couldn't just move the money
from recycling. Is that correct?
>> They Yeah. They wanted to uh reassign
from public works to the landfill, moved
the position from one pot to the next.
And that pot was just basically a
transfer of the person and the money.
Wasn't going to involve any additional
cost to the county. Wasn't going to be
any additional employees. it was just
moving them from point A to point B. The
second person that they were looking to
hire was an additional person had an
additional salary and and the council
put both of them on hold for a very good
reason and that reason being that there
is no deputy director of public works.
There is no director of public works and
the council feels felt like and still
feels like
how can you make changes to a department
when you don't have anybody running that
department in charge of it. So now is
not the time to go in there and make new
positions and come up with new things
when you don't have a director or a
deputy director. And when those
positions are filled, whoever is
filling, you know, the director or
deputy director position may have a
different approach, a different vision.
So if you do something now, you get the
new lady or man in there, then it's
going to change and you just have a bit
more chaos.
>> So let's let's talk about that. I mean,
we saw back in May that they uh that
they brought on Mustafa Karen.
>> Yes.
>> Mustafa Carson, director of public
works. They actually had to raise his
salary all the way up to the top to be
the director of public works, but he
only lasted three weeks.
>> Three or four weeks. And uh then he was
gone.
>> He now he he resigned like he
>> Yes, he he resigned and and left the
county. And of course, it's a personnel
issue. Nobody knows why he left the
county, but uh you know when you apply
for a job and uh you tell the county
that uh the salary you're offering off
offering is not sufficient. This is how
much I need to come take that job. The
county gives the person that amount of
money to do that job and then they only
last three or four weeks.
>> Clear. Clearly there was more going on
just a salary issue.
>> Well, and you brought this up back in
the spring. Uh he was he was a engineer.
He could he could stamp plans.
>> Yes. He was a registered professional
engineer who was authorized by the state
of Maryland to sign and seal
construction documents
>> and construction documents similar to
like building cell 7.
>> Oh, absolutely.
>> So, so he decided to leave for whatever
reason. And we did see and we referenced
the presentation that Mike Suavey made
uh and Councilman Jeff Merritt or Vice
President Jeff Merritt also made
reference to this presentation where the
money would be moved but it was a net
zero. But Mike Suave is not with the
county anymore.
>> Exactly.
>> Um so
>> he was fired. He did not resign. He was
fired.
>> He was fired. Yes. I I'd like to point
out why it's important to have a
professional engineer as the the head of
a department such as public works. It's
not just about signing and sealing
construction documents, but there's also
a code of ethics that is involved. You
know, you you swear, you know, that you
will uphold public safety, etc., etc. A
a degreed engineer um who is not a
registered professional engineer is not
bound by that code of ethics.
>> Yeah. So, it's like having someone do
your retirement uh planning who's not a
fiduciary versus say someone who just
does understands bookkeeping really
well,
>> right? So,
>> yeah. And I I think this is a a big
reason why the council decided not to
move ahead with either one of the two
recommendations. I mean, the director of
public works was chosen by this
executive and her people and only lasted
three or four weeks. the deputy director
was chosen by this administration and
her people and they fired him. So, you
know, the council's given the executive
the people she wants to do this job, but
they don't last.
>> They they not only approved both of her
first selections for those positions,
they they approved the budget increase
to the top of the line salary. And uh so
it's odd and and you know the county
executive several times has said look
the county council just won't let me do
what I need to do.
>> Yeah.
>> But under what circumstances have has
has she been held back from what she
wanted to do
>> under this? She hasn't been. You know
essentially the executive has been given
given everything that she has asked for.
Now there have been nominees for um
acting director of public works uh that
have been denied by the council. They
did not confirm that individual. She was
not a registered professional engineer.
And from my experience, it's highly
unusual to have somebody at in a
director's position in public works that
does not have that registration.
>> And my understanding is that that is a
requirement for that job.
>> Yeah.
>> And you know, you can't be hired for a
job if you don't have the necessary
requirements or you're not in the
process of obtaining them. You know,
it's one thing to hire somebody who is
in the process of getting that. A lot of
people are hired in that way and you
know, you have six months or nine months
in order to finish what you need and to
be certified and we're going to go ahead
and let you have that position. But when
you don't have it and you're not trying
to obtain it, there's no reason to put
you in a job like that. And then it also
puts the county in a position if they
don't have a registered PE that they
have to outsource, you know, any, you
know, documents to make them official by
the signature and seal of a registered
professional engineer. Cost more money.
>> So, let's circle back to what we covered
back in July. the county executive came
out and said on June 30th, no less, that
the landfill was going to start to close
on Saturdays and then we would be on
closed on Saturdays and Tuesdays at this
point if we had if her plan had had gone
through. We were told, Mike, that the
that the uh request for bids for cell 7
would be out at the end of August.
>> That's what we were told, but uh that is
not what has happened. Actually, they
said that it would be at the beginning
of August is to the best of my
recollection. Now, here we are uh we're
uh in the entering the fourth week of
September and there is still no request
for construction bids posted on the
county's procurement website. So, this
is really why people out there should
should be concerned because we've been
told by the county executive and the
part of her team that's left that
there's it's it's going to take 6 months
at least to construct cell 7.
>> I'm skeptical about
>> that. 6 to 12 is probably more likely.
Uh six would have to be a lot of perfect
things happening,
but we were also told that we're going
to run out of landfill space by July or
August of 2026. you would think they'd
be in a little bit more of a hurry. And
you know, this isn't the uh the only
inconsistency in what we've been told.
You might recall that uh several months
ago the uh uh acting landfill
superintendent Adam Corey uh I forget
the exact numbers but first he asserted
that the construction documents the
plans were 75% complete and then it went
up to 90% and then down to 60% and now
back up to 90. At 90% documents, you can
easily put that job out to bid. You if
there's any changes between the 90 and
100% documents, they can still award a
contract and negotiate, you know, any
additional or reduce costs, you know.
So, we have just the uh level of
completion of the documents. We have the
time frame for when it will go out to
bid. And from my experience, I simply
don't buy unless they get absolutely
perfect weather over the winter that
they're going to get this constructed in
6 months. It's highly improbable.
>> Well, thank you both very much. Uh I
want to bring Trish Melvin back in
because she was also at this meeting and
and we just laid out a lot of
information and I want to really get a
feel for just how easy is this to
follow. I I understand this is not the
easiest thing and not the most exciting
thing to follow. What could be more
exciting than this?
>> Well, it'll be exciting when you can't
take your trash to the landfill on a on
a Saturday. So So stay with us. When we
come back, we're going to bring back in
Trish Milvin and follow up with the
landfill. Stay with us. We'll be right
back.
Welcome back to Open Agenda. In the
studio with us again is M. Trish Melvin
from Fruitland. Thanks for coming back.
>> Good to be here.
>> Thanks for sticking around, Jim.
>> Sure.
>> Sure. So we we got a lot of information
from Mike uh and and a lot of background
from Jim as well. There there is there
is a lot that has happened with
consolidating positions back even in
February that probably worked out with
hiring the environmental compliance
technician. But now you're seeing
another set of circumstances that
started back in March with the
presentation that former deputy director
of public works Mikey presented where it
was a net zero to the county and now
we're being told by the finance director
that there would be an additional cost
because they're two different accounting
departments. So how do you feel about
this this resolution being tabled and
and possibly even this costing the
taxpayers more money?
you I don't think that there is a choice
if if we don't have the people in place
to administer the new positions. What
good does it have to hire people to do
these things? I mean, first of all, I
think it it is great that we're going to
have a litter coordinator. I think the
work that Wakcomo Clean has been doing
is needed and I can see a difference.
Um, however, I am concerned uh maybe
even more now after being informed by
Mike just given the degree of
uncertainty.
>> Okay. a lot of open positions and talk
of consolidating positions. Um, and now
it's all on hold. So, well, Jim, you you
referenced in the last segment about
letting the new bosses, so to speak, the
director and deputy director hire these
positions because you you you would want
them to
>> to have the buy in, right?
>> Have the buy in, have their own people
there.
>> Yeah. uh as me as many of these meetings
as you've watched, do you feel like
we're on the right track to get this
litter coordinator position? Because
it's not a done deal at this point.
>> No. No, it's not a done deal. It's hard
to tell if we're on the right track or
not. The council meetings, even though
they are informative,
people don't get the whole story and get
the in-depth vision. And I'm not
advocating
people sit there and read the briefing
book because it gets very dry. It's like
reading a dictionary at times, but there
is so much more information information
in the council briefing book that if you
do read it in something that you are
concerned about, you have a better
understanding when you get into a
council meeting of what they're talking
about.
>> We got a couple council members who
haven't read the brief.
>> You've got that. You've got that. You
can tell by the questions that are being
asked who has read the briefing book and
who hasn't and and who doesn't have a
clue what's what's going on in that
council meeting. But,
you know, without a head
of the Department of Public Works,
we're just they say that uh Bulky
Luffman is running the Department of
Public Works is what they
>> That's what director of finance came on
and said.
>> Yes. and that's that's his
responsibility. But uh
>> I'm asking the right people the right
question. But when we don't have a
public works director or a deputy
director, who's actually in charge of
public works?
>> The director of administration,
>> you know, when you don't have a deputy
and you don't have a director, it's
another handful on Bunky. And is he able
to
devote enough time out there with all
the things that are going on? Because
public works right now has cell 7 that
they are up against the wall with and
they have the dredge material at Sharp's
point that they're up against the wall
with because a very interesting fact
that uh I noticed here in the past week
that came out
>> and approaching the council to get the
$2.3 million to move the the sludge out
of Sharps Point. We are required by the
um Army Corps of Engineers to get a
100,000 cubic yards out of Sharp's Point
by October
>> October 1st.
>> October 1st of 2025 if we want to stay
in rotation to maintain our dredging at
the on the Wakcomo River or in the
Wakcomo River, whichever way you say
dredging, sorry, in on at. Um, so if we
want to maintain our place in line and
keep the um the river open for the boat
traffic that we have on the river, we
need to remove 100,000 cubic yards by uh
October 1st.
There is a deadline
>> October 1st.
>> October 1st by the Army Corps of
Engineers that it has to be moved or
there's a possibility they may skip the
Wakcomo again and move on to other
places. So, you know, October 1st is
next week.
>> So, that that was presented at the April
15th meeting
>> u by director of finance Pam Olen when
they asked for the initial $2.3 million
to move the first 100,000 cubic yards
out of Sharps Point. Yes. She said they
they have to move that 100,000
just to get the dredging done on the
cycle.
>> Yes.
>> They came back later for another 7.5
million to get the other 300,000 cubic
yards out.
>> So Trish, you're you go to some of the
meetings, you're catching up on a lot of
the information. Cell 7 is behind on the
construction. We may be behind on
dredging the Wakamaku River
>> and we don't have a director of public
works or deputy director of public
works. What's your what's your
enthusiasm level right now of your
county's functionality?
>> Well, you know, I I wouldn't describe it
as enthusiastic. I' I'd say I'm
concerned.
>> Yeah.
>> I think at the end of the year that the
uh pension fund is going to get another
large infusion of money because uh
county saving a lot of money on salaries
and not getting work done that's
supposed to get done. So, all these
things that were budgeted, there's going
to be leftover money. So,
>> that's a great point. And and look, I
was I went back out Design Road the
other day, and this was been brought up
a few times. I mean, that road is is is
an access point for ambulances. Uh it's
a it's a thorough affair for people on
the east side of the county.
>> It's in a crumbling state of affairs.
And we did find out in the last fiscal
year that there was a half a million
dollars in the Department of Public
Works that was not spent
>> on paving.
And so it wasn't used on paving. and and
it was a legal move, but the county
executive and her finance team moved
that half a million dollars in savings
directly into the pension fund
>> of the county employees. Now, from the
presentation, it seems like it is behind
on the funding. They want to be at 80%
funded and it was in the 70s.
>> But if we're just not going to pave
roads, if we're just not going to build
cells,
if we're just not going to take care of
the county just so we can prop up the
pension fund, I mean, it
Where is literally the rubber going to
meet the road?
>> Well, and and Zion Road and Zion Church
Road are classic examples because
>> one of the two largest employers of
Wakcomo County.
>> That is a major road for their trucks
>> to come in and to come in and out of
that grainery and to to haul uh haul
their produce out. Not their produce,
but their products. And uh you know that
that's a major important road to that
company.
>> Yeah. I mean the there's potholes on
potholes on potholes and I'm not sure
that the uh the coal patch is going to
stick anymore.
>> Yeah. I don't think that road is is
repable. I think that road has to be re
remade. I don't you can't go in there
and just try to fill holes and fix that
road. It's not going to last. that
subbase at this point has has definitely
gotten wet and and would probably not
hold up to an asphalt top at least
there. So,
>> well, thank you Trish. Thanks for coming
out. Thank you, Jim.
>> So, thanks for watching this episode of
Open Agenda. We'll be back later this
week with another new episode.
>> I I'm I'm not going to go into that
aspect. It's not the item up for
discussion today.
