Open Agenda TV: S2 E5 Josh Hastings
Show Transcript
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Different hi folks welcome back to open
agenda now this week we're going to do
things a little bit differently as you
can see instead of two there's three
handsome guys that are going to be
giving their uh views on current events
both in the city and regarding County
issues uh I'm joined obviously by the
voice of open Agenda Mr Mike Goldberg
and of course our producer editor
magical uh techn technological Guru
extraord techno guy uh Mr Mark Caroll
and um we have a lot to talk about today
uh there's actually two sort of big
issues that we'd like to address and
then after that we're going to
transition to a conversation with
council member Josh Hastings who will
join us in the smaller studio um but
first gentlemen I think uh I think it
goes without saying there's quite a lot
of news circulating regarding the recent
city council meeting that occurred on
Monday the 27th of January and
specifically uh that you know pertains
to the cil's decision to override uh
mayor Randy Taylor's veto of a density
Amendment change that basically is going
to bring a uh fairly large luxury
apartment complex to
downtown but also is tied to all sorts
of concerns yeah absolutely so what did
you think about the vote and the issues
related to it well with respect to the
issues if it was just one project
increasing the density from 40 to 80
would we could probably live with that
but the central business district is now
being painted with a very broad brush
and when all future development has such
a high density downtown is going to
become a very undesirable place because
there is going to be insufficient
parking I think there is going to be a
lot of traffic headaches you have
limited access because of the geography
you you're surrounded by the south prong
and the main stem of the Y Comico River
it's going be quite a mess um I'm also
concerned about the way that the city
council went about this I think public
opinion was suppressed um and that's uh
that that's very disturbing in itself
yeah absolutely and I I agree what you
said about down downtown is is is 100%
correct downtown is basically an island
it's you know between the the the
highways and then the river and it's
stuck that that's where it is uh if you
build it up you know too big there's
there's nowhere to add parking elsewhere
uh so parking will perpetually be a
problem I think the biggest issue here
is the council's inability to recognize
uh mayor Taylor's expertise in this area
uh he's been he's been downtown for over
20 years has been involved in business
downtown um he has seen these similar
plans come and go people come in with
promis and then never deliver he's seen
all of that and I know that because I I
was downtown with him we were neighbors
for years I lived downtown I had an
office downtown all within that area uh
Randy Taylor is an expert in that area
and if he saw a problem with all of the
what was presented to him and he thought
that it was an issue they should have
listened because he knows what he's
talking about and he's also a a
commercial lender which gives him I
think a very unique perspective you have
to analyze you know everything from you
know traffic uh volumes U which is all
part of the the density issue uh and the
department of infrastructure in
development furthermore you know they
recommended against this they are truly
experts the city council simply ignored
them their recommendations that to me is
trly the Crux of the matter is that when
it comes to the actual professionals who
don't have a financial incentive on this
issue they were totally ignored
absolutely right the did staff job is as
you said to do those things so forget
the mayor right this is just these are
the bureaucrats you have who do this
this is why you hire them and the fact
that you have a process that really goes
back to when the Planning and Zoning
commission sort of jammed it through as
well under circumstances that I think we
all would agree are less than umh
ethical um it it raises all sorts of
questions about why is the city council
or at least why are four members of the
city council we actually should give a
shout out to council member
and my rep Sharon theil for asking uh
for time to examine the issue for
pausing it not even to to uh to do away
with it because the the thing about this
matter at least for a lot of people is
no one is actually against a density
change we agree that there needs to be
some kind of Reform but how it's done
really matters yeah and unfortunately it
seems that the the Planning and Zoning
commission which had a 5-Hour meeting a
few months ago on this matter um did not
even discuss it they just ran through a
pre-written statement and then the city
council also didn't have any public
discussions it's literally as if the
only thing motivating them is this vote
for density I have never seen in all my
years as a resident in tax I've never
seen a city council more single-minded
to pass a piece of legislation without
any regard from the public beyond the
developer the outcome was clearly G
determined you know as you mentioned the
uh you the general public was locked out
of the discussion uh the department of
infrastructure and development was
ignored so what's going on here and I'm
also might add that most of the members
of the uh of the city council they have
no background in development or in land
planning they really don't understand
these issues and if they do they they
are being comp they their votes were
compelled by something else the question
is what was that I would I I would I
agree with that I would make one caveat
there is one council member You could
argue that does have some experience
with these matters but that's part of
the problem yes so council president
deshun dowy works for Green Street
housing which is one of the developers
that is going to be impacted by this
density change and that raises all sorts
of questions about possible conflicts of
interest about ethics and it's really
concerning when this vote and several
others have been taken in which you have
people whose employers are literally
financially attached to these changes
and there's no discussion or no second
guessing about maybe this is a bad look
maybe this presents some concerns for
the public um it's deeply troubling well
because of this conflict uh we already
know that I believe one lawsuit has been
filed so far or is about to be and
there's probably going to be some more
unfortunately it's going to be the
taxpayers in the city of soulsbury who
in order to protect their City are going
to have to uh bear the cost of of those
legal AC what's going to be cheaper the
lawsuit or the garage well and and
that's the other part of it right that I
I think it is sometimes lost in some of
the media coverage because a lot of what
the mayor was talking about was the
parking which again I get that's his
prerogative I actually think in terms of
public discourse it would have been more
effective to talk about the fact that
you know part of the fact that these
density changes would alter um the
ability for getting access to downtown
to park is that it came with a 20year
tax abatement right a 20 years of
subsidies to Gillis gilkerson on top of
the fact that it would also require the
city to bond for garage which would be
at least $1 million is the current
estimate which the city would then have
to pay about5 to $600,000 per year on so
we're basically defunding ourselves or
at least going into debt for a luxury
apartment that in the end is only going
to at most 200 units or so it's not
going to substantially transform the
nature of Salsbury uh and it begs the
question why are our supposed elected
officials who represent all of us why do
they seem so single-minded in
specifically giving one developer or
excuse me one developer and a few
ancillary de developers and businesses
why are they giving such preferential
treatment it would seem and such a focus
on every policy toward this it's the
60,000
question and uh I hope that uh I think
it's more than that it's more like the
$60 million question uh but it's it's
going to be expensive and I think the
you know the people the residents of the
city of soulsbury they're just going to
get hammered they're you know paying to
subsidize as you mentioned they're going
to have to build a new parking garage
there's going to be a great deal of new
uh subground subsurface infrastructure
storm water management storm water
quality facilities and you're in an area
that is within the Chesapeake Bay
critical area in an area that's already
prone to flooding this is going to be
very expensive development and to me the
big question is will people actually
come do people want to live in a central
bus business District central business
district not Central residential
district people tend since World War II
to move out of the CBDs they want some
space they want some land around them so
their kids have a place to play
and they're not going to get that I
think that the demand for downtown
housing is going to be very limited and
it is certainly not going to uh be um
housing that will benefit lowincome
people it's just not going to be you
brought you brought up a very good point
about the cost of it because I feel like
from the outside a lot of C Salsbury
might not realize they might think that
this is just a downtown issue this is
not this is going to cost everyone in
the city of Salsbury because the city is
going to be paying for it and your tax
dollars are going to be paying for it uh
and you're also right it is not fun to
live downtown I can tell you I live
downtown 20 years ago and um they have
since changed it but I they called the
mixed use buildings we didn't get trash
pickup we had to go out and purchase our
own parking permits it was a nightmare
well and again let's let's be clear as
of right now the only thing for certain
is that lawyers are going to make money
because with at least one lawsuit
already filed and perhaps another on the
way this very well might be taught up in
coure for years yeah which again raises
the question what are our city council's
priorities well everybody in soulsbury
should be prepared to reach down deep
into their pockets and they can thank
our current city council thank goodness
for councilwoman Sharon the who actually
did some homework on this and stood up
for her constituency yeah but you're
right that is a that is an expensive
proposition and you know unfortunately
for me I was born handsome not rich but
um hopefully in the next ction cycle
that reach for a pencil instead of money
and choose choose better Representatives
we'll see again as the old saying goes
you get the government you deserve right
um on that note folks uh we're going to
um shift gears a bit and uh address uh
specifically uh one other uh important
topic which of course is the upcoming
meeting with the County Council
regarding uh a very long-standing
lawsuit uh that was filed several years
ago by the
NAACP uh and the ACLU of Maryland which
also impacts of course our County's
future in a very important way so uh
let's let's talk a little bit about that
particular topic okay before 1987 W
Comico County had a five member County
Council all of which were elected at
large in other words all council members
were elected countywide but in 1986 the
Supreme Court ruled that under certain
circumstances at large seats violate the
15th Amendment and the Voting Rights Act
of 1965 five which were intended to
ensure that voting rights were not
Abridged based on race or color this
principle applies even if denial of
voting rights was not intended in
response to uh the Supreme Court ruling
and following a department uh of Justice
lawsuit W Comico County created Five
election districts in
1987 whereby one council member is
elected from within each of the five
districts then two additional Council
members are elected at large for a total
of seven Council seats this is known as
the 52 system one of the five districts
was also drawn to ensure that the
majority of the population within that
District were minorities this is known
as a minority majority District other
towns and counties on the Eastern Shore
and Beyond also abandoned the the system
by which all Council or commission
members were elected at large
additionally in 2016
the W Comico County Board of Education
which had previously been appointed by
the governor became locally elected and
adopted the same district boundaries and
the 52 system as the County Council fast
forwarding to 2023 the nwacp and other
plaintiffs filed a lawsuit against W
Comico County and the Board of Education
claiming that retaining the two at large
seats on both the County Council and
Board of Education diminishes the voting
strength of the minority population and
therefore violates the Voting Rights Act
the lawsuit's objective is to create
seven election and corresponding Board
of election uh I'm sorry board of
education districts with no atlarge
seats on either of the seven proposed
election and Board of Education
districts two are to be drawn as
minority majority seats the lawsuit also
provides for w Comico County and the
Board of Education to pay for the
plaintiff's costs and attorneys fees in
the amount of
$135,000 So to avoid expensive
litigation in which the county and Board
of Education would be likely to lose the
parties will probably make an outof
Court settlement adopting most tenets of
the NAACP lawsuit discussions have
recently be held been held in closed
door meetings of the County Council the
lawsuit and possible settlement will be
discussed by the County Council in Open
Session on Tuesday February 4th at 6:00
p.m. we hope yall will attend or watch
the proceedings on pack 14 well Mike
thank you for that phenomenal summary um
I think you know obviously it's a very
complex issue but I think you've
distilled it
rather phenomenally um and I guess for
the public uh the thing that would be of
most importance you know would be to
attend or at least watch it on pack 14
as you said so that you actually get to
see in real time you know how the
council will kind of publicly uh debate
and address the nature of the lawsuit
and and really talk about what it means
because again it has huge impacts about
who our local reps are not just for the
county but as you said for the Board of
Education absolutely yeah great well on
that note um we're going to transition
to the next segment of our show uh I'm
going to be joined by uh one of those
council members actually Mr Josh
Hastings and he's actually going to
speak about uh that lawsuit in a little
bit more detail uh and we're also going
to chat a little bit about about the uh
ongoing concerns in the region regarding
AV and bird flu and what ramifications
that might have for the poultry industry
so uh stick around if you will and uh we
will continue on with this episode of
open
Agenda welcome to open Agenda I'm your
host not Joe White uh I'm the other Joe
uh Joe venosa and I'll be hosting this
week in Mr White's absence and lucky for
us we have quite a bit to talk about and
we have a very special guest with us um
actually uh he was our first guest when
we began about eight months ago so we're
lucky to have uh councilman Josh
Hastings from the W Comico County
Council from District 4 com in Full
Circle full circle yeah by the way I
think you should start the show with Hey
Joe Jimmy Hendricks playing in the
background you know what if we could
avoid the copyright infringement I think
we could do that we'd have to get a
public yeah well unfortunately his
estate isn't but um that's mean his
estate is nice but um thank you for
coming out today thank you appreciate it
so we've got quite a few things to talk
about and obviously I think um with your
background and position on the council
and sort of in state matters in general
uh it would probably be good to help
inform the public about some of the sort
of emerging uh issues and obviously one
of the things that's been in the news
lately and is certainly on a lot of
consumers Minds is the situation
regarding the poultry industry and in
particular the uh situation regarding
the Aven flu um could could you give us
a little bit of background and context
on sort of what's been happening yeah
and then by the way I'll say you know of
course I grew up on a poultry farm uh
and spent a lot I've spent hundreds of
hours I don't know thousands of hours
working on the farm but hundreds of
hours working in the chicken house
themselves um I grew up with that
industry as it uh evolved a lot um to
where it is today uh the big issue um
every year the perennial issue is always
um the outbreak of Aven flu the um this
is the h5n1 is the is the the general uh
variant that's been out there but
there's also the H5 uh and N that's the
one that actually killed a person in
recently in in uh in Louisiana but and
there's been multiple outbreaks that
then H5 and9 is more on the west coast
but what we have to worry about here is
H5 uh um N1 uh and that is uh that's
actually uh touched multiple neighboring
counties and neighboring states and uh
it's been touched down in Caroline Queen
ANS
Dorchester um so uh that of course um
and and by the way and if you saw the
news recently uh also there's been um a
lot of dead birds found in Delaware
Beach uh community and so uh it it it
seems that obviously you know the media
coverage has focused you know sort of
exclusively at least on sort of the
Nightly News on things like egg prices
but
from your Vantage Point or I should say
you know are you hear anything
specifically from our local farmers
about these kinds of concerns and are
they taking steps to mitigate and and
should the public have a better sense of
what they can do to maybe sort of help
yeah the um we've actually and I'm
always in my day job we work in in
conservation Community the um they're
always vilant and very vilant on this
particular issue the and we've had
actually a couple um outbreaks in the
last decade that have been challenging
uh one of them was the uh so the I guess
the 2014 2015 about 10 years ago that
that year we had uh the outbreak mainly
stay on the west coast but that was 48 U
million Birds uh that end up being
affected um and so and then on Del Marva
it was uh we had um about two years ago
was the last big uh issue uh and um and
and what that happens by the way and and
to be in context here's not only of
course can uh just like any other flu uh
it can be transmissable among multiple
birds and our main issues is the uh
water foul uh as you know Del Marva not
not only do we have it's a it's a Flyway
for a lot of birds a lot of migratory
species a lot of them touch down here
but also um home of the ptry industry so
any particular Chicken House nowadays
when I when I was younger um a large
chicken house was about 30,000 Birds uh
now that's among the smaller ends wow um
so you're talking about you know in this
case 40,000 or so Birds per per chicken
house uh some Farms having um as many as
10 houses on there so uh the the issue
of one of them getting um getting sick
and then it spreads very quickly so the
um Department of Agriculture and does
actually routine testing um in their
facility actually located here uh in W
com County um but they do Regional
testing through that uh but um when that
when when one does get sick they have to
go and call all of the birds it's
um tough process yeah yeah it sounds
like it I mean and the logistics of it
obviously at the state level seem very
complicated and I guess my follow-up to
that is given that we basically are very
close to both the border of Delaware and
Virginia that would imply that there
would need to be a lot of Interstate
coordination on this yeah is that
happening right now from what you've
seen or heard or what's the yeah there
luckily we've had I mean obiously
luckily this is awful but I mean they we
have had a couple close calls and uh in
the last couple years where it could
have taken off and spread and got much
worse the downar of a chicken
Association uh who I work with um uh
Holly who leads that you know she's uh
done a fantastic job they've been on top
of it making sure that most of our uh
farmers can uh once again uh fixing the
gates outside on most on their
properties usually they put either a
gate or some sort of um protective area
so that folks can't come in usually all
it takes is one person who has run over
an infected bird with their vehicle and
they drive onto a property they want to
go check out a particular property and
they come in the back you know and then
that usually it comes through feces or
through uh um you know um or oral nasal
secretions but if that happens and then
that gets into that chicken house I mean
it can very quickly become a very
serious problem so most of them have
enhanced they're currently working in
enhanced bio security uh so what that
means is all of the chicken houses
around here locally poultry houses they
uh they'll have uh everyone has to suit
up if anyone does come in U usually no
outside Vehicles no outside equipment uh
everyone has to go through a uh step
into a bleach um it's kind of like a
tray he basically steps in uh so all of
those measures have really uh um uh
gotten a lot stronger since I was you
know the 80s and 90s especially since I
was young um but it it is very effective
the more that we can keep people out and
keep it and keep it separate from the
interactions I think a lot of people are
you they have their backyard flocks and
they're very proud of it right um we
just have to be careful on the Del Marva
Peninsula just because there's such a
high concentration of birds so it's not
so much that the the nature
of this particular kind of Aven flu is
endemic uh to one or two large Farms is
that it can it can go anywhere but the
mitigation process because it's well
regulated has been successful at this
point in kind of limiting those
instances at least historically yeah
okay yeah and and by the way I tell
anyone there's a there's a series on
Netflix that I watched back in uh 19 or
2019 um early on my wife and I are
watching it and um it's about pandemic
and it's about predicting basically
saying and this is 2019 it basically
saying I I think I've seen this my wife
yeah it's saying that basically a
pandemic's likely to happen and um and
one of the places that they feature from
around the world is the place called the
Del Marva peninsula where it talks about
the Flyway and the and the chicken
poultry industry uh but it's a it's
amazing to see and but it actually
really shows how our area really we have
to be extra vigilant uh on this on that
ation fascinating well thank you for the
information on that and obviously we'll
sort of uh you know keep our finger on
the pulse of of that news and and
hopefully it won't become as large of a
concern as it would appear to be some
local context but um Josh we have a
couple more things to talk about
particularly the upcoming County council
meeting and sort of some of the aspects
of what you'll be discussing would you
stick around uh for a few more minutes
yeah after the break through it all
right great thank you so much so we're
going to be back in a few minutes with
councilman Josh Hastings and we're going
to pick up on some of the issues that
they'll be talking about at Tuesday's
County council meeting so stay with
us welcome back to open Agenda I'm here
again with councilman Josh Hastings Josh
thanks for coming back with us thank you
yeah GL to be here yeah great so uh we
obviously have a lot to talk about
regarding the upcoming County council
meeting uh which will be at 6 pm on I I
believe it's Tuesday February 4th so um
at that meeting there is a resolution on
deck that addresses uh specifically um
the possible conclusion to a to to a
piece of litigation that the County's
been in involved in uh with both the
NAACP and a few other uh plaintiffs uh
this is resolution 23- 2025 um could you
sort of talk about what that is and why
it's important for the public to sort of
know yeah and i' really I really hope
the public shows up uh can show up or
can pay attention hear hear what has
come from it we'll actually have at that
meeting a uh uh one of our special
attorneys kind of working on that who's
that can give a bigger broader
understanding of uh how we came to be
where we're at but basically uh the
quick version of it is that you know the
NAACP uh and the ACL you uh sued by
Comico County saying that we um have a
high minority population or black
population specifically uh the way that
the Voting Rights Act lays it out uh and
that we uh currently have only one
minority District uh and then two at
large uh for the County Council so seven
total seats uh five districts two at
large that's the way we currently
operate um they um their thought was
well it should be seven different
districts and then maybe two minority
districts uh so um we've been going I
maybe about a year and a half or so
going through the process of of
litigation and having discussions what's
what's the best way to rectify this and
to make things right um so I think we're
very uh we we basically are now at a
place where we've accepted um come to
terms and so uh at this council meeting
we will uh go forward and kind of accept
all of the the recommendations that um
that have come about and agreements that
has been reached uh um and then that
that would include creating seven new
County council districts and I believe
there was a press release uh earlier
this week that actually included those
new proposed Maps those seven new
districts correct yeah and they should
be up fully on the website for the
County's website now uh there's a GIS
version you can actually go in and look
some of the data uh and then um and then
in the briefing book it's already posted
uh it actually has copies of the map
itself so people can start to figure out
oh where where do they currently uh fit
Within These districts and I I guess the
question that I have to as a you know
someone who's been in elected office and
has represented uh primarily city of
Salsbury you know being in District 4
how substantial is that change on on the
map in general from what it was to what
it is yeah um my district basically gets
RI ripped up it's uh I'm um I'm going to
be in what will be the new District
Seven will be my area uh but also
there's a district four which my
currently has that's part of my area and
then District three so um so Salsbury
sort of cut up into three pieces then
yeah it's really
yeah it's going to be chopped up a lot
um so it it will be it will look very
different than it currently does uh and
and then currently you know the
population of 106,000 for for the county
so dividing that up it's it's actually
divided up pretty evenly with the way
it's set up so far so dividing up in by
seven um and this also therefore though
will include new well these new lines
will apply for both the County Council
and the Board of Education yes yep
they're for both and they will take
effect um uh we will be accepting them
as the the plan goes forward but uh and
they'll have to um you know we won't
typically you would go through this
process to change you'd have to put it
for the voters to uh to look at and to
understand U this is not because it's a
lawsuit is a very different kind of a
situation um but it will take effect uh
for the next election so 2026 election
they'll be that will be the first time
we have this so it's it's coming up then
essentially okay wow and I I guess the
and I don't know if this was ever
brought up but it seems to me a little
bit ironic that if uh one of the
arguments in the lawsuit is that the any
atlarge position sort of fundamentally
you know violates the the Voting Rights
Act you could make the argument that the
county executive position uh is a sort
of a direct threat to the essence of the
1965 Voting Rights Act I find that kind
of ironic that that the position itself
I mean that that wasn't ever a part of
the actual lawsuit correct no okay yeah
and I honestly I don't um as a whole I
really don't know that I mean as as a
person like I'm a master degree in
public policy I care about you know
setting good system so that we all can
kind of come at the right uh um you know
conclusions together and understandings
together but uh the challenge is all
often that you create districts that
they usually end up being for lack of a
better word gerrymander right and I
don't think that's generally good for
democracy but uh in this case you're
going to have giant swings between the
number of um political party people in
ular political party uh in these
districts but as a whole I think the the
ACLU NAACP and the county did a good job
working together to try to find um to to
uh to produce a result that made sense
uh given the parameters that we have and
with regard to that point about Jerry
mandering would you say that the lines
that are drawn at least from a from a
political party view are they any better
worse than what we have had are they in
are they the same like how would we kind
of they're more extreme they are more
extreme okay yeah and they're they're
going to be that way um but it the
public can take a full look at it um but
once again this is a way to try to uh
you know the the Voting Rights Act that
was passed you know long before we were
born that actually does you know it um
it says you have to be be very careful
and and U specifically with uh black
population uh that's the way that they
look at it not not minority as a whole
uh but trying to make sure that that's
um you know that it's uh that everyone
has a an opportunity to be able to be uh
repres resed okay and so and this by I
I'll say also this is not the first case
it's not it's not like wo is unique and
you know Federalsburg recently had the
situation and uh end up having to pay a
lot of money and go through a lot of uh
yeah it seems that the Federalsburg sort
of case was the template for what
happened here is that is that fair no uh
it was actually um these cases have been
going around around the country no no
but in terms of Marin L looking at it
yeah looking at it in terms yeah yeah
yeah but um but we've the parties have
all work together we've had really good
conversations uh and I think our
attorney is going to actually uh um do a
good job of understanding how we came to
be how this came to be okay and then
what what it actually looks like but
overall I think um everyone should
generally feel like uh you know we we've
met the objectives and that it's been
thoughtful okay Fant and the the
attorney who's taking care of this
particular matter is Mr Kevin karpinsky
correct yes okay yeah not Dan Cox no
special just check just checking okay
making sure fantastic so in your opinion
then this be a really important meeting
for the public to either attend or watch
because of its ramifications yeah there
there's going to be a whole new um
people maybe and people get used to
their districts and by the way when we
changed when we went through districting
a couple years ago you know we generally
tried to keep the districts uh the same
and to not have you know Jagged um what
do they call them the prostrate
pterodactyl shaped U districts you know
like that w comica we did a really good
job uh in trying to make sure that they
stayed consistent and compact right and
um so uh we kept those largely the same
as of the last uh from you know from
when I first office then this past time
uh so these dist are going to look
markedly different I see uh just because
we had to uh um you know cut them off
yeah accommodations wow fantastic well
Josh we really appreciate coming out and
letting the public know about this
particular matter well actually both
matters obviously they impact daily life
in in many ways and I think the voters
are going to see in the next cycle
obviously the impact in a very
pronounced way um and I hope they come
out I hope folks come out and think oh
they should run for office too maybe
this makes maybe this gives an
opportunity for more people to run who
haven't considered in the past and the
best part about this new feature though
is that you can actually sort of put
your address in a search feature to find
out what district you're in yeah so that
that's actually very sort of convenient
for people that are interested yeah so
wonderful well councilman thank you for
coming out we always appreciate the time
and opportunity and I feel like we've
come full circle now after I think 32
episodes or so and eight eight months of
doing this so on season two thank you
yeah season two yeah absolutely sequels
are great so um you have a wonderful day
thank you again and for those at home uh
we appreciate you watching uh obviously
the upcoming uh County council meeting
is going to be in the government office
building uh in downtown Salisbury on at
6 pm on February 4th so we hope to see
you there or at least you hope you can
watch it on pack 14 and um have a
wonderful week
we think Mark Carroll is the best editor
ever
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