Open Agenda TV: S2 E53 Debunking the Briefing Book for County Council Meeting

You're watching Open Agenda. Here's our

host, Joe White.

>> Welcome to Open Agenda. I'm your host,

Joe White. In the studio with me today

is Mr. Mike Goldberg from Delmare, Mr.

Jim Atkins from

>> Y.

>> So, it's not normal for us to have a

show that comes out on Monday. Um, this

show is going to be about what's in the

briefing book for tomorrow night's

county council meeting at 6 o'clock. Uh

we felt compelled to do this because

there's over 170 pages, a lot of

information and there's contradictory

information from the county executive in

this. Um Mike, I want to go through the

timeline that Jim has prepared and the

notes that you have prepared. I want to

give everybody just the facts and then I

want to take a break and come back and

do some analysis of those facts because

it's it's nearly impossible to comment

on it while you're trying to go through

the timeline. But there's a lot of lot

of things that have have have been I

would say restated that weren't facts in

July. They're now all of a sudden are

supposed to be fact in October. All

right. So stay with us. When we come

back we're going to go through the

timeline and then later on we'll give

you some analysis of what's going to

happen at Tuesday's meeting. So stay

with us. We'll be right back.

Welcome back to Open Agenda. In the

studio with me is still Mr. Mike

Goldberg from Delmare. Hey

>> Mr. Dr. Jim Atkins from Mardell. Thank

you for sticking around.

>> Sure.

>> So, we we're going to go through the

information that's in the brief book for

the meeting this coming Tuesday. It's a

night meeting six o'clock in the

government office building. Uh the brief

book came out last Friday and there's a

lot of information in it. Um over 100

pages, right?

>> Yeah. It's in the uh I think it's in the

170s.

>> Yeah. So, let's let's go through the

highlights. Uh first off, we're going to

talk about the 287G,

the MOA, the memorandum of of agreement.

Now, we have been told since day one

that this is going to be between the

sheriff's office and ICE. And I want to

go through a little bit of that time

history, but before that, we we're also

we're finding out now that this MOA is

actually between ICE and the Department

of Corrections, right?

>> That's correct. Yeah. Sheriff's

Department is never mentioned in in the

MOA. So, in order to get here, I mean,

we started back in July, specifically

July 25th, right? And and this came out

from Mike Lewis, uh, on an interview he

did with WMDT, stating that he had an

ICE a potential ICE agreement and and at

the time, and even the county executives

talked about this through the month of

August, they were going to do the jail

enforcement model, right?

But we found out on September 4th that

they've actually changed it to the

warrant service officer or warrant

>> warrant service officer.

>> Yeah, warrant service officer

>> uh model and that was because they the

expense of the JM model.

>> Correct. Uh, now we have been told that

the sheriff's office is fully staffed

now, but Julie stated back on September

4th that they were switching this model

because of potential shortages in the

sheriff's office.

>> Correct.

>> We've documented on other shows that we

don't have enough student resource

officers in the schools. So, even if

we're fully staffed, we still have some

gaps, right?

So, one of the big dates I have on my

list that you prepared, Jim, is

September 22nd and and Julie made uh she

had an interview with WOC and she stated

that she that we want to ensure the

council and public have a full

opportunity to review and discuss this

proposal before any final decisions are

made.

>> Correct.

>> Okay. Now, in this briefing book, there

is a final decision in the briefing

book, right? The MOA is basically like

this is a yes or no.

>> It's written. It's there.

>> We haven't had a public work session.

>> Nope.

>> Uh Mike, I know you haven't missed any

meetings. No public work sessions. No

comments other than public comments. And

there's been several people who have

gotten up. I mean, you and I are are in

favor of the of the agreement,

but we're not in favor of the lack of

transparency of this agreement.

>> It's it's not always, you know, what the

end product is. It's how you got there.

you know, it's uh you know, the means

by, you know, it's the means to get

there.

>> So, just 4 days later on September 26th,

we we we we had more of another

interview with Baltimore Sun County

Executive. She stated in that interview

and and I I would really encourage

anyone to go get that interview. Yeah,

there's a lot of good information. And

one thing, if you go to the Baltimore

Sun uh website to read the article,

it's not going to let you read it unless

you buy a subscription to the newspaper.

But if you stay on the same Google page

that it is on and you go down a couple

lines, there is a uh site there that

will let you see the article for free.

Okay?

>> So you're able to read it. So Google

Baltimore Sun September 26th,

>> but that that that talks about that they

were drafting an agreement with ICE and

that the final decision would be made by

the county council.

>> Yes.

>> And and and Mike on the in the briefing

book. Um I know there's some discrepancy

there, but there is no place on this MOA

for the county council to sign or the

sheriff's office, which may just be a

product of it's not a a final draft, but

also at the same time, it may not be for

them to sign, right? I mean, there's

possibilities.

>> I I I don't believe that the council has

to be involved uh in uh endorsing this

this agreement.

>> All right. So, again, stating with

what's in the briefing book, what what

we can see, there's there's emails from

the county executive to the county

council in there. Uh you know, our

understanding is she's not real happy

with some of the information that has

been put in there, but it's the most

transparent form. She's not happy that

the email that she sent was put in the

public briefing book, but you know, it

should be public information.

You know, you're outlining what your uh

MOA is going to be and you're answering

questions that the council might have.

Well, why are you afraid to let the

public see that? You know, it's

information the public wants to know.

You're going to have an open work

session tomorrow night on this. There is

no

public hearing scheduled at this time

and the best of my understanding there

is not going to be a public hearing

scheduled. So the only chance you're

going to get because the work session

will happen after the public comment

session of the council. So, the only

choice or

>> opportunity

>> opportunity, thank you, that you're

going to have to to speak anything about

this is going to be in the public

comment section prior to their

presentation. So, if you don't know what

you don't know, you're not going to be

able to stand up there and address your

concerns because 15 20 minutes later,

they're going to talk about it, but

they're not going to allow you to ask

questions or talk about it at that point

in time.

>> Well, and that's why we that's why we're

doing this show.

>> The one place that people can get the

majority of the information is go to the

wcomakookount.org

website

>> and they can go to the agendas and get

to the briefing book. Correct. So the

the first item on the left column, if

you go to Wcomakico County Council and

that page comes up on the very top left

hand side, you will see the first

listing says briefing book and all you

have to do is click on that. It pulls up

the full agenda and it folds up the

entire briefing book.

>> Okay. So for people who haven't been to

meetings before, I think we should also

explain they're going to have their

legislative session.

>> Yes,

>> that agenda is posted. Then there's

public comments. Then there's even a

chance for the council to have comments.

>> Correct.

>> Then there's a open work session. Now

once they start the open work session,

there's not another chance for the

public to speak. That's what you

>> the public. Yeah. The public is done.

All they can do is sit there and listen.

And uh as in past instances,

sometimes when you hear things, they're

not accurate, but you can't respond to

them. Yeah.

>> And sometimes when you are accused by

the executive of saying something that

you did not say, you don't have the

opportunity to respond and explain to

the county that you're wrong.

>> I want to talk about who that happened

to.

>> I want to talk about that more later on.

>> All right. So, a couple other items that

are on the agenda that that are

important and they're in briefing book

as well is they're going to move another

$185,000

from the fuel farm out of the airport

into a a project out there for for uh

technical Yes.

>> for the tech school.

>> So, this is after just on September 2nd,

they moved money for the fuel farm to

the ARF building, which is the

firefighters building out there.

>> Exactly. Um, so now we're in a situation

where we know the fuel farm was

overfunded, I think as Councilman Enis

said, by about 30%.

>> Y

>> and we have we have brought up before

that the other projects have been

overfunded and then the money being

redistributed to other projects later

on. Uh, so that's that's on there. And

then uh I also want to talk about what's

not on there. Uh our last show last

week, we just we we covered the tour

that DNR took for the uh partnership

parks uh with Typican Creek State Park,

which I understand why that's not going

to be on there. but also this idea that

they may start moving dredge spoils from

Sharps Point into Conley Mill

and in the fact that we've now passed

the deadline October 1st to move 100 the

first 100,000 cubic yards of uh spoil

out of Sharp's Point, but there's no

update. I mean, $2.3 million and we

don't know are they there? Did we spend

more? Did we spend less? What are we

doing? Well, you've not only got that,

but you you've got a representative from

the state who dealt with the dredging

back in, I believe, 2021 with uh

Executive CER,

who was under the impression that

this judge material was going to be

barged to deal like it was in 2021. And

they're kind of like, what happened?

They don't know anything about not

getting it. So,

>> um, in looking for what the plans are

for the next dredging project, um, my

research thus far has not is not

complete. But what we do know is that

the last dredging project was completed

in 2023. I believe it was in December of

2023. And all of that material was

pumped directly to a 75 acre site on

Deal Island to restore it. And that was

fun from the from the lower wcom when

they dri lower.

>> So future projects will cover I assume

the middle portion and the upper

portions up to Ssbury but the lower the

lower part near the uh entrance to the

Wcomo River has already been taken care

of. Right. So,

>> well, I want to take a break and when we

come back, I want to go through this

timeline that we we already stated

>> and talk about because we we've been at

present at the meetings and talk

specifically about concerns we think

folks should have.

>> This isn't about whether or not you

agree with 287g

or not because we don't all have these

same opinions.

>> It's just trying to get the transparency

out there so people can make a logical

decision. Are you in favor of it or

aren't you?

>> Yeah. All right. So, stay with us. When

we come back, we're going to dive more

into the details of the MOA with ICE. So

stay with us. We'll be right back.

Welcome back to Open Agenda. In the

studio with me still is Mr. Mike

Goldberg. Thank you,

>> Mr. Jim Atkins. Thank you.

>> All right. So, gentlemen, we laid out

the timeline. Uh there's a lot of

duplicity. There's also a lot of

contradiction and I want to go through

specifically

what information the public should be

looking to come out of this work session

and maybe what things that they should

know that probably aren't going to come

out of this work session. So Jim, I want

to start with you.

>> All right. Well, the first thing that I

want I want to hit is the comment that

continues to be made from the county

executive is that that this is a

costneutral

agreement that there will be no cost to

the county or to the county taxpayers.

Uh our county executive was a teacher.

It's quite apparent she was never a

business owner or operator. Uh if she

was, she would understand

that

when you take someone from their job

and you to do something else and you

have to replace that person's with

another person, there's an additional

cost to it.

>> Anybody that has a business understands

that. And more than likely, if your

department of correction is, as I've

been told by reliable people, about 28

people short on staffing.

When you take a correctional officer and

send him to an 8-hour class, you have to

pay somebody else to cover their shift

at the correctional department. And more

than likely, that's going to be an

overtime cost.

>> Yeah. Cuz they're already maxed out.

>> Yes. They're already maxed out. they

already have their own shift. So there

is a cost to it. You know, you can't say

there isn't a cost. One of the second

things in this new MOA is that uh ICE

has the ability

to use our Department of Correction

officers

to transport

illegal aliens from Wakcomo County

Detention Center to the ICE detention

center which could be in Baltimore,

could be anywhere. So, we're going to be

paying our correctional officers to be

transporting people. So, there is an

additional cost

>> potentially. The MOA is actually silent

on who bears the cost of that. So that

could be a friction point if uh

>> well yeah it's it's silent on when that

states but earlier in all the part of

the MOA it's talks about the salary of

the law enforcement officer being the

countyy's responsibility. So I cannot

foresee how this would be any other

difference.

>> And Mike you laid out the financial

obligations that the county would have

and then what ones the ICE has. It's

it's it's not very even. Um, I mean,

travel, housing, pdeium, all has to be

paid by the county for the the folks to

to get trained, right? It

>> it's it's a very lopsided contract that

favors the federal government. Uh, you

know, basically the county pays pretty

much for everything to provide a service

for the federal government. It's

backwards. The federal government should

be paying for the services provided by

by the county. Um, it's a really sweet

deal for the feds. And if uh I if I were

negotiating this contract, it would

>> and and that's that's the thing that

that really throws it all into

perspective.

The federal budget for ICE this year.

Last year was $10 billion with a B.

This year it was raised to $29.5

billion with a B. So, they got a three

times budget increase,

but they want to put the cost of this

agreement back on the county.

>> Well, and look, Mike, you and I are we

both have publicly stated that we're in

favor of having some sort of MOA, but we

both are looking for what is going to be

the cost. I mean, there should be a

budgeted amount. There's not I mean

there's no way that you can ascertain

what the costs are because nothing is

fixed there. There's too many variables.

But, uh, one thing in this agreement

that we've talked about and I've talked

about since we started this two months

ago when we first started filing it, and

I keep trying to make sure the council

members understand

is the section in this agreement which

states,

"If ICE determines the training provides

a direct service for the government and

is in the best interest of the

government,

The government may issue travel orders

to selected personnel and reimburse

travel, housing and PDM expenses only.

The law enforcement agency remains

responsible for paying salaries and

benefits of the selected personnel. So

in other words, if they open an ICE

detention center,

let's pick Baltimore for for sake of of

discussion.

They can take the correctional officers

that we have trained here in Wakcomo

County, of which we are reportedly 28

short on, and they can take the ones

they have trained, and say, "We want

them in Baltimore tomorrow. We need

them." So now we're going to be further

short here. We're going to be paying the

salaries of our officers who will be in

Baltimore County. we are going to be

paying overtime to all the officers that

then have to pick that up. Yeah. And and

that is like Mike said, that is a you

can't forecast what that cost could be.

>> I and the salient point there is is that

although the federal government may

reimburse, they are not required to

reimburse. So I I I want to talk about

the performative politics of this,

especially when it comes from the county

executive side because as you see in

your timeline, the story has changed so

many times. This isn't this is

costneutral. This is now we don't have

enough people. Now we do have enough

people. We're going to have this type

ofou. Now we're going to have this type

of MOA. At the end of the day, she is

saying she is trying to put on the

county council their signature on this.

>> Yes. But we don't believe it's

necessary.

>> No, there there's nowhere on that

agreement for anybody to sign except the

county executive. And she has authority

over the Department of Corrections. If

the the sheriff's office was involved in

this, then Sheriff Lewis would have to

sign it because she does not have

control over the sheriff's department.

But you know, and apparently the

council's not involved in this because

there's nowhere when you see all the

other MOAs andUs to come down. There's a

line for the council president to sign

on the form. There is no line here.

>> In this case, there's two criteria that

have to be considered that would result

in the county council being required to

sign off on it. One is that there's no

dollar value uh assessed to this MOA. uh

to the best of my belief under the

charter that any contract $50,000 or

more does require council approval.

There's no dollar value. So, that one's

out the door. And uh the term, the

length of the contract, a contract

that's 365 days or more would require

council approval. This is an open-ended

contract. There is no, you know, term

limit. it's uh can be cancelled at will

by either ICE or by the county. So if

those two criteria are not met in my

opinion, then the it's the uh in within

the sole unilateral authority of the

county executive.

>> So I want to I want to go back to an

interview she did with the Baltimore Sun

on September 26. And one of the things

she she says early in the in the article

is we literally had a meeting with the

mayor yesterday. He's talking about

Randy Taylor from Salsbury and we were

like stop writing press releases

>> because Randy who I think is maybe

sometimes overly transparent. He doesn't

play those political games and I applaud

him for that.

>> He put out a press release and put out

information before that political

machine was ready for it

>> that the city was was going to join in

on this. Yeah, she wasn't ready

sheriff's department.

>> She's she's trying to control this

narrative. But I also want to read

another quote that she has in there. Uh

well, actually two others. One, I think

over the years, the government has

proven itself probably not to be

trustworthy at times. However, I feel

like my administration tries hard to put

information out there. People sort of

spin their own tail. Okay. She's right

about herself.

>> Yeah, she's spinning her own tail. Yes.

because in and what we don't see in this

agenda tonight is is is about Sharp's

point. We're not going to get into that

much in this show because they're not

going to talk about it,

>> but we're seeing this this this story

changes all the time and and then I I

want to give people just a little bit

more of a of a look into really this

thinking. Um she she goes on, she was

reluctant to use the word targeting, but

added targeting a specific group of

people. This program would be targeting

a specific group of people who are

breaking laws.

And we're not just talking about

immigration laws. It's literally you are

breaking laws here. You are causing

havoc here in the community. And those

are the people we are like maybe ICE

does need to vet them. Then she goes on

to say, are they supposed to be here?

And if they are, they'll be released.

I'm telling you, this is a dangerous

slippery slope we're going down. Yeah,

>> this is where you're seeing that first

we're going to detain people, then we're

going to decide whether or not they

should be here. That is not the story

that's being told about what this WSO

policy should be. Mike, you and I are in

favor of the WSO.

>> I am too. I I am too. I I full I I I

fully agree with it, but I have I have

confusion with this.

>> Okay. I have limited law enforcement

experience from

almost 50 years ago.

At that point in time, when a person was

arrested,

they did what was called a 1029,

which was police code for check for

warrants and wants. So if you did that

check for wanted, it would come back

through the criminal information center.

That person had a warrant for them

anywhere in the country. And then if you

would hold that person for that reason

in addition to wherever you were holding

them to begin with and you would notify

the jurisdiction that issued that

warrant. At that point in time, it was

up to the jurisdiction

to tell our people,

"Yes, we want him held. We're coming

after him, or no, the charge is not

sufficient for us to extradite him from

Maryland to California, so do what you

want with your end of it, but let him go

as far as our end." I don't understand

what the difference is now.

They do a a warrant a wanted check on an

individual now when they arrest him.

>> Jim, it's campaign season.

>> I you started campaigning and that's and

I think that that's what the people in

this county need to understand. Look,

Mike, you know, we talk about different

political views. I mean, we're not we're

not all Republicans. We're not all

Democrats.

We're being used and and our resources

are being used for political gain. Okay?

I'm comfortable saying that. And if you

don't believe me, and please don't take

my word for it, show up tomorrow night.

Show up at the council meeting 6:00,

watch this legislative work session. I'm

sorry, not legislative session, work

session. You're not going to be able to

speak, but you're going to get to see

this performative politics because as

much as I support our sheriff, this

system, this this program is not being

talked about openly and honestly by the

people who we're talking about. And the

and the problem with it is

we're looking for a problem to a

solution we already have. All this stuff

is already in. You don't have to

reinvent the wheel. You don't have to

come up with with

detention center guards going in and

issuing warrants. You don't have to have

sheriff's department people going in and

issuing warrants. All this stuff has

been happening for 50, 60 years. Why?

Why all of a sudden do we have to sign

an agreement with the federal government

that we're going to do this for you?

Just keep doing what we should have

done.

>> I don't think we necessarily do. Look,

there is an ICE office here in Salsbury.

>> Um I would uh according to their

website, it is actually staffed by law

enforcement personnel as as well as uh

people who deal with the immigration

bonds. Is there any reason that their

law enforcement people who are right on

Naylor Mill Road can't come down? I

mean, it's not like you're going to have

a hundred of these warrants a day. It's

going to be, you know, an occasional

thing. And in the event that there's

nobody available in the local Salsbury

office,

>> two hours to Baltimore or two and a half

hours to Washington DC where they got

plenty of staff.

>> I will tell you, we we have been our

show has been there's been attempts to

get our show shut down. Yes. Okay.

>> And this is going to be another one.

>> Well, I think what our county executive

would love for us to listen to is the

advice she gave the mayor. We literally

had a meeting with whoever may the mayor

yesterday. We're like, "Stop writing

press releases.

>> They don't want this information out."

And if you want another example of this

is moving money from the fuel farm over

to this this tech program out at at uh

the the school out at the airport.

The government is asking us not to ask

questions. And every time we ask a

question, we find another preposterous

answer. Um, just to Mike's credit,

there's probably a very simple solution

to this 287g problem.

>> As you said, we we're looking for a

solution for a problem we don't actually

have.

>> People need to show up.

>> Yeah. Now is the time to actually

instead of listening to what they're

telling you that they want you to hear,

you need to go see it for yourself. And

another thing you're going to hear

tomorrow night

is a proposal

because the department heads of this

county that all get paid $100,000 plus

now want to come back to the council and

say, "Oh my, we uh we didn't think about

raises for our part-time employees in

the last budget session. So now we we we

want to give raises." Well, you know, I

if you have a balanced budget that you

have to present for July the 1st,

you know, the best way to Yeah. The best

way to balance a budget is don't put

cost in there,

>> right?

>> And then wait until two or three months

after the budget and come back and go,

"Oh, oh, well, I I make $120,000

plus, but I I forgot to say our part-

timerrs need a raise."

>> All right. So, Tuesday night, 6:00,

government office building, room 301.

>> Great.

>> And uh be ready for public comments. Not

going to be a short meeting. Nope.

>> But these are your tax dollars at work

and these are your tax dollars getting

spent.

>> And I would say to everybody, you may

not take an interest in your government,

but I assure you that your government is

taking an interest in you. And if you

are not there to witness what the the

the actions of the government and to

actively participate, then you're going

to be ruled rather than governed. Don't

don't let the information that you get

by press releases and interviews from

the local papers and the local

televisions

be

your belief on what's happening because

believe me when you get into that

council chamber and they talk about

things it's very rare that what you've

seen on TV or read in the local paper is

how this plays out at the end of that

meeting. give you a chance to see how

the sausage is made. And you can bring

the eggs because you have the chickens,

right?

>> Well, I Yeah, I I'm banning chickens,

but I'm trying to find one after I tried

to ban them. I'm trying to find one to

bring to the to the council meeting.

>> You know, it' be interesting. You talk

about that. We we've joked about it.

We've even had lunch over on camera, but

um it was interesting that the county

executive chose to discredit what you

had said at a meeting. Yeah.

>> Uh because you I it's been very public

that you've been working on this. Yes.

Yes. So, I mean, you know, and and I

made a joke to one of the uh Pack 14

executives this morning when I came in

that uh this may be the very last time

you see us because she has tried before

to have us uh removed and I'm sure after

today it might happen again.

>> Yeah. So, thanks for watching this

episode of Open Agenda. We'll be back

later this week with another new

episode.

Nobody tells me unless I ask.

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