You're watching Open Agenda. Here's our
host, Joe White.
>> Welcome to Open Agenda. I'm your host,
Joe White. In the studio right now is
Dr. Joe Venosa from Salsbury. Thank you.
>> Thanks, sir.
>> Mr. Jim Mackis from Mardella.
>> Yep.
>> So, I want to have Monica Brooks on to
talk about the She's the president of
NAACP in Wakcom County, but I want to
talk about uh her involvement with the
287G. Uh and later on I want to talk
about the transportation uh Maryland
transportation authority meeting that
was last week with you Jim. But in full
disclosure, the three of us are are
members of the compensation committee uh
that are dealing with uh looking at
salaries for the next election cycle for
county executive, county council, and
the sheriff.
>> Uh we've chosen not to talk about on
this show. We we'll cover it later once
their work is done, once our work is
done. One of the things that we got to
do is meet with Sheriff Lewis.
[clears throat]
Uh, and none of us asked him about 287G,
but another member of the the the the
group, there's 11 total on the on the on
the panel. [clears throat]
>> They they asked him
>> I So, I don't know. So, I'm just asking
what is the partnership that you all
have with ICE and and what does that
look like? the 287G program. It's still
uh we've we've announced our intent to
enter into an agreement and uh I have
been so so clear about this, but I'm
going to make it clear once again. Uh we
will never be conducting enforcement
operations on the street with ICE. We
won't be conducting traffic stops with
ICE. We won't be doing search warrants
on houses with ICE. Anything that the
Wcomigo County Sheriff's Office does
with ICE will be exclusive to the
detention center and that will be simply
serving warrants on individuals who have
already been identified as being wanted
by ICE and they're going to get a deep
uh portation uh order on them. We won't
be doing any enforcement activities
whatsoever. I don't have the manpower
for that, [snorts and clears throat] Dr.
Sebastian. I simply don't. Number one.
Number two, we have our hands full doing
what we're doing here in this county.
And if ICE ICE has a policy and and
that's what they want to do, then have
at it. But if I can be part of the
solution and how people are handled and
how people are processing this county,
why wouldn't I want to be part of that
at the jail? It's new to us. So when I
examine the 287G program like 12 other
sheriff's offices are currently doing
across the state, that's in addition to
the three that currently have 287G
programs in place, that being Cecil,
Harford, and Frederick counties. But
there are 12 other sheriff's office
across state, 13 of us that are
currently announced our intent to work
with ICE. And it's like I said, if if
people are viewing ICE and what they're
doing as being problematic, why would I
not as sheriff want to be part of making
that better? Making uh and I do mean
that making that better for our county
residents and how that's going to unfold
in our county. I don't have the jail
beneath my purview. It falls beneath the
purview of a county executive. If it
fell beneath my purview, we would have
been operational by now. But because it
doesn't, it has presented its own unique
challenges to ICE and our county quite
frankly.
>> And uh this was the first time publicly
that I believe Sheriff Lewis has
addressed 287G since news articles came
out in July.
>> Yeah, to my knowledge, you're absolutely
right. And I was very appreciative that
he basically talked about it in the way
that he did and I think the public would
benefit from listening to that.
>> And Jim, were you were you surprised at
what he said? I mean, he talked about
not only what what model he he
supported, but also the fact that it's
very likely that the Maryland
legislature in the spring is probably
going to outlaw these anyway.
>> Yes. I was surprised that he got in into
that and discussed it at all because
like you said, it's one of the few times
publicly that uh he he has talked about
it. Uh the council had a work session on
287 uh with the county executive and uh
he was not there at that work session.
He sent uh Captain Weersburg who who
spoke about it and and we appreciated
that. But, uh, as the head law
enforcement officer in the county, he
needs to be the one out there stating
his opinion about what he wants to do
and how it's going to affect his
department because, uh, as as I said at
the work session,
in order for the sheriff's department to
get involved
uh, with the warrant services officer
model that they're they seem to be going
after, there's going to have to be an
MOA a or anou between the sheriff's
department and ICE to go correlate with
the MOA between the county and ICE. So,
>> and one with the Department of
Corrections, you know, convoluted.
>> Yes, it's a it's a lot of MOAs
>> and we don't even know if the council's
going to vote on it at all. I'd like to
ask Monica Brooks about
>> Yeah. whether the council going to vote
on it and whether it's not it's going to
be outlawed next year. Well, and on that
point, the other thing we need to
consider too, cuz I've heard this from a
few people, is there's discussion that
it may well be outlawed next year, but
are they going to grandfather in the
counties that have done it already? And
that's a whole another question. So, a
lot of stuff that's still in motion
>> and we're not even sure if this is just
a political maneuver by our county
executive to be reelected in a year. So,
well, u I'm going to ask you to come
back and uh we'll talk about
compensation committee once all the
work's done. That'll be another day. So,
stay with us. When we come back, we're
going to bring in Monica Brooks, the
president of NAACP, and Michael
Langford, a Salsbury property manager,
Talk 287G. So stay with us. We'll be
right back.
Welcome back to Open Agenda. In the
studio with me now is Miss Monica
Brooks, president of the NAACP of
Wakcomo County. Good morning.
>> Thanks for coming out. Thank you.
>> Mr. Michael Langford, property manager
in Salsbury. Thank you for coming out
here.
>> Thanks. So, uh, Monica, I I have seen
you at almost every county council
meeting, and even if I've missed one,
I've seen you on Pack 14 videos. Um, I
know you you represent uh your
organization really well. Um, but also I
I know that there's more to what you do
and and uh talking to you, you actually
got started back in 2014 as a co-founder
of another organization. Can you talk
about that?
>> Absolutely. So um back in 200 might have
been 13 actually two 13 or 14 um we
discovered that they someone had a great
idea to put 13 mega-ized poultry houses
on top of the paleo channel which is our
source of water if you're in Salsbury
and the areas around um that's where you
get your water from. And so, um,
appalled and not hearing anything from
our county, um, protesting this, but
they were allowing it and and they were
also not informing citizens, um, I
started a petition same day and just
started knocking on people's doors. Hey,
do you know about this thing? Do you
want this thing coming here, etc., etc.
Educated myself on it? Combined with
some other folk and then we formed
concerned citizens against industrial
kayos. Um, and started having meetings
weekly. We would get up to 70 people a
week. And a ko is is a large uh
agriculture, you know, like
>> it's a concentrated animal feeding
operation. So the whole model has
changed. It's not the good old days
where animals would just roam the land
and breathe good air and all of that,
but no, it's the idea to have as many
animals that we can breed as possible
and grow as quickly as possible in a
confined space.
>> Yeah. So I want to talk about your
involvement with the 287g the MOA. We we
the county does not have one as of right
now, although we've been told by the
county executive at times that there is
one or alluded to one. Uh you were at
the work session at the last council
meeting.
>> Uh you have organized press conferences
and protests out front.
>> I want to explain a little bit I want
you to explain a little bit about what
what your position is on the 287g MOA.
for me and our organization, um, we see
not only the relevance of, um, speaking
out against 287G because of us aligning
ourselves with ICE that I call mass
vigilantes. Um, but the the downside of
what that does for the county itself,
um, as well as the harmful effects of
what it does to our community. When I
moved here, I discovered that so much of
our industry, so much of what we do in
this area is literally tied directly to
immigrants um that are invited here,
whether they come invited to um work in
Ocean City and run all the games and
triers and the restaurants and all of
that, whether they are invited to work
in the poultry industry, whether they're
invited to pick the fruit um around, or
whether they come through um Title
Health um as new physicians and um and
all of that. So, it's very integrated
into who we are. Um
so, with this what's currently going on,
we did have a meeting,
I'm going to be honest, this is my first
meeting ever with the county executive.
I mean, ever. um and had a meeting where
she said
that she would not support this thing if
the county doesn't vote for it. If the
county doesn't if they vote against it,
she will not push it through.
>> You talking about the council or the
whole county as like a referendum?
>> The whole council if the council doesn't
support it by a vote if she will not put
it through.
>> Okay. So you were at the work session.
>> Mhm.
>> And we even had a member of ICE, Peter
Mccurio. He's the uh field operations
manager for Maryland. He actually works
over in Baltimore, but there are four
ICE agents uh who work out of the
Salsbury office who do lower Delaware
and and Salsbury. Did you feel like the
information was very organized coming
out of that? Because he even seemed to
refute some of the things that the
executives team was saying. It was not
it was not organized honestly between
the two different things where they seem
to try to say well yes you you know what
I mean right or that it was very
confusing
>> they would contradict it right
>> right and then there were some questions
that ICE um the ICE agent could not
answer um I'm very concerned about the
idea that there can be this open-ended
um agreement that still doesn't fall
within the need for council
approval. So I think a vote is
absolutely necessary question about
something that could go on and on to all
eternity.
>> And what you're alluding to is the fact
that this this MOA had no set date and
it's not and it's not in the norm for
ICE to do um in the typical um
arrangements. It's just kind of we just
we just keep it open. I mean there's no
putting a deadline on it. There's no
it's from this time to this time
>> or has to be renewed.
>> There you go.
>> So, one of our contributors of the show,
Trish Melvin, spoke at the last county
council meeting during public comments.
And one of the things she's brought up
now, she's she's really watched the ICE
website and and and noticed that we
actually didn't actually have an
application in when the county executive
was saying we did.
>> But one ma main point she brought up was
of all the MOAs that are already
announced,
>> this is the only one. This was amended
in June,
>> right?
>> Where it has the transportation part of
this. It has another paragraph that says
that that the county is responsible for
transporting the detainees to wherever
they need to go, presumably to
Baltimore, but [clears throat] that's
only presumption. Uh did you did you
pick up on the fact that they couldn't
answer that question?
>> Absolutely.
So, it's very evident that in my in in
my view, this seems to have a lot of
political motivation because there has
not been a real deep dive. There's been
more of a deep dive on this whole thing
about what we're doing with the tipping
fees or what we how much more cents
we're going to add for the people who
are dumping the trash than this.
>> Okay.
I have not heard a very clearly
articulated discussion from anybody
any of the the people directly involved
with the ability to push this through
that has been very comprehensive. have
not heard a comprehensive deep dive, a
very well articulated argument, anything
that has shown that we have dotted our
eyes and crossed our tees, especially as
it relates to how we're going to protect
Rakcomo County.
>> Sure.
>> That's one of the arguments that I, you
know, mentioned about how the federal
government is going to leave Wakcomo
holding the bag and what can we do?
>> Well, you you talked about the council
having to take a vote. That is really
where uh the council's attorney Bob
Benson and the legal department that's
run by law firm that represents the
executive. They yeah they disagree.
>> Um do you have an opinion on whether or
not the council should vote for it or
>> I think the council should vote for it
but not not vote to agree not vote to
accept it.
>> No, I think they should I think they
should put it out there for a vote.
>> Okay. I think each one should show what
their position is on this particular
matter and I think at the end of the day
they need if they are supporting it they
need to be able to back that up.
>> Would you rather them just decide not to
take a vote and Julie honor her
discussion with you that she wouldn't
proceed without them taking a vote? I
mean would that be
>> I I mean I don't want to see the the
whole thing go down period. I mean we
already know ISIS is here. If you want
to align yourselves with people that are
not accountable,
because I'm not seeing that, that are
covering their faces. We don't know who
the heck they are, what are they doing,
and that are not showing themselves to
give a flying fig as to what damage they
cause, who they hurt, and what are the
consequences of that. To me, that's
ridiculous. Like, I would never
go into business with somebody I don't
know. like this is
>> especially if you don't have control
over
>> you don't have control over it. You do
not. And it says it on that ICE website.
The there are certain areas that power
we will relinquish.
>> The the legal and financial liabilities
that we're open ourselves up to if we
enter through the agreement. You're
saying like we just lose all control of
certain situations that are just
terrible for people.
>> 20 people have already died. Well,
actually the numbers up from 20. That
was about a month ago in ICE custody.
One of the other concerns was with with
there being an agreement with ICE that
some other folks may under reportport
other crimes,
say there's a domestic assault, but the
person who would normally get reported
is an illegal alien and that victim does
not want to get them
>> to be in trouble with being deported.
>> Absolutely.
>> Uh are we looking at a situation where
we may under reportport other crimes?
>> Well, absolutely. I mean that that has
been proven in all in different areas.
If you look at um communities that feel
targeted or um that they don't have a
level of trust with law enforcement,
then they stay away from law enforcement
on this.
>> Well, Michael, I want to ask you, you're
a property manager of a property in
Salsbury.
People do have rational fears and even
sometimes irrational feels fears, but
they're still real to them. Uh can you
can you give a little perspective of the
folks that you interact with and and and
maybe give some anecdotal scenarios
where this might be a problem?
>> Yeah, I I actually I had a a tenant that
has since moved on and it's a tragic
situation and essentially he and his
wife took an apartment from me and they
are from Brazil, so they speak just
mainly Portuguese. A lot of them work
for like the men will often work for
construction companies. The women will
often work for cleaning companies and
they're a very tight-knit community, the
Brazilians in our area, but there's
actually a lot more than what people
would think if they're not, you know,
aware of people. So, unfortunately, this
one gentleman, he stopped paying rent.
And then when I reached out to a friend
of his, because I wasn't able to reach
him. Um, I reached out to another uh a
neighbor in the complex who was another
Brazilian woman and she said that his
wife had been taken by ICE. And I don't
know when specifically this happened. It
ended up being the case that um she said
that once that happened, he started
drinking a lot and had kind of distanced
from being a neighbor with them as much
and isolated. Then I got a call probably
about a month ago from a woman from a
church and they had helped he had let
them know he was behind on rent and
taken money from these folks at the
church and stuff. And so I think that
the situation is like people be like,
"Oh, that's always wrong to under false
pretenses take money." But I don't think
people understand both why people
immigrate in the first place, what
they're coming from, and then the fact
that none of us know what that's like to
have our spouse ripped from us when we
have children with that person and then
to what that experience would be like.
It's just absolutely horrifying.
>> It's hard to put your mind around.
>> Yeah. Like, so how would you respond to
that? It's easy to in the abstract be
like do the right thing or obey the law,
but that's not really how life works.
We, you know, if we've all have some
seasoning on us, we know that. So we
need to, you know, look at and it's just
a tragic situation in which the person
eventually just surrendered the
apartment, left the keys one night and
is now gone and before his wife was
taken, never had an issue, never an
issue with, you know, with them disturb
any complaints from other neighbors, any
issues with them paying rent on time.
These are not people, they're working
people who are contributing to our
community. They're they're not causing
any harm, but we're but these situations
cause people in our community real harm.
you're you're um making me think of
another layer to this, mental health.
>> And so the mental health aspect of how
we're creating
more folk that are potentially in a
grieving space, they're grieving.
>> The person's not dead, but in a way they
are, right?
>> An idea of their life is dead.
>> Yes. So now you're talking about
potential um alcohol abuse, potential um
opio opioid use, um potential violence
in the home or depression, suicide, um
drunk driving, um who knows, whatever.
All of these extra things that are added
in um that we're we're creating um
potentially, [clears throat] you know,
creating in in our county. And I I don't
agree with violence of, you know, people
do you do the crime, you do the time. I
I have no problem with that. I don't
have a problem with, you know,
understanding that we have a huge
problem with our um immigration because
nobody's wants to do anything that that
actually puts in real policy. No one
takes the time to to formulate a real
plan. All what we're doing now is just
kicking people out and and showing
violence and we hate your stinking guts
for no reason, which is not the answer.
There needs to be real intentional work
on policy that people are just not
willing. Let's not forget how we are
saying and determining which immigrants
are the okay ones.
>> I have yet to see a video of anyone who
is not a person who is black or brown,
being pulled out of a car, being yanked
up or what have you. And I also said to
county executive, if you don't think
this issue is really more cuz because
she said she's gotten a lot of people in
support of 287G and I said, "Do me a
favor." I said, "Just look at the
comments that people have made on any
news article related to 287G
and you tell me if you think this has
nothing to do with prejudice." That does
seem to be one thing that both political
parties can kind of agree on is let's
just keep the muddy the waters really
muddy and no one can immigrate here
legally. I've had the opportunity over
the years to work with a lot of
phenomenal J1 students from all across
the g globe including Dominican
Republic, Brazil, Thailand, Bulgaria,
and so it's just really interesting to
see what they think of as that American
standard
>> and to understand when we when we go to
the uh county council meetings and we
hear uh gentlemen from from Haiti who
have businesses here, they've lived here
for 35 years now. uh just they are
fulfilling that American dream and uh
those are the folks that you would want
in your backyard. Um
>> let me tell you something interesting
what you mentioned about the J1 students
and stuff. I've hosted exchange students
a few times.
So this last one that I hosted um there
was um she's from Spain and she left
some clothes here and she was saying hey
you know I want to get these um she and
I said why don't we just get buy another
suitcase so you can take it with you.
She's like, "No, no, no. You can just,
you know, extend it." Right? But there
was one sweater that she brought with
her that was her favorite and it was um
a Ralph Lauren sweater with this
American flag on it, right? And that's
one she loved. So I said, "Well," I said
to her parents, I said, "Why don't I
just send
the one sweater, you know?" So, and she
goes,
"No." She goes, "That flag is not not is
not supported here anymore." Mhm.
>> She goes, "My daughter," she goes, "My
daughter
>> would not be in a good position wearing
that sweater here right now."
>> Wow.
>> And I was like, "What a difference a
year makes this." She just left here
>> this year.
>> Wow. Talking about carrying on. You do
want to encourage people
>> to come to the next council meeting.
>> Absolutely.
>> Um November 4th.
>> November 4th.
>> I'm sure you you'll be out there early.
It's a 6:00 meeting.
>> It's a six o'clock. Absolutely. folks
want to get a chance to talk to you,
they can probably be out there five or
5:15 or so and and uh
>> yeah, I'll be I'll be at the meeting.
And I just want to encourage people just
to be engaged. Um I believe if you're
watching this program, that means that
you are, which I think is fantastic, but
encourage your friends and family to not
only to watch, you know, different
programs, but also to attend meetings,
come to meetings, see what's going on.
Stop asking everybody else what's
happening. Why don't you find out for
yourself? Um, and you can share your
concerns with your council
representative. If you don't know who
your council representative, come to the
meeting um, so you can meet them.
>> Well, very well said. Thank you for
coming out. Thank you, Michael.
Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.
>> Thanks for watching this segment of Open
Agenda. We'll be right back.
>> Welcome back to Open Agenda. In the
studio with us now is Mr. Mike Goldberg
from Delmare. Thank you.
>> Yes, sir.
>> Mr. Jim Atkins from Mardella. Thank you.
>> Yep. So, talking about the
transportation bill, uh the not the
transportation bill, but the
transportation presentation for the
county was last Thursday.
>> Uh we had Monica Brooks in earlier to
talk about 287G, and we've just recently
started to get information about the
county executive's plans there. Well,
here we had another meeting with state
highway administration and county
executive was absent. Right.
>> Exactly. I mean, you have a uh you have
a meeting with the Secretary of
Transportation for the state of
Maryland. All her people, excuse
[clears throat] me, under her uh MVA,
the airport people, uh just uh state
highway, everybody was there [snorts]
except the executive branch. And uh one
of the things that uh
I spoke about there were only uh I
believe I was the only non-political
person in the public meeting.
>> You had some county council members
there, right?
>> Uh President Canon was there. Uh he was
the only one. And I I give a lot of
grace to [clears throat] Thursday night
when this meeting was held.
This meeting was scheduled back in July
at the end of July. There was a uh email
sent out, notice given and uh a response
on who was going to be there so they
could figure out for the meal for the
legislatures.
All the council except
I believe one were at the dinner and the
presentation that the county gave to the
state. Uh the Bonnie Loftman was there
as the director of administration.
But when they left that meeting and went
into the public meeting,
President Cannon from the council was
the only person who was at the public
meeting. Now, I I give grace to
the majority of that because there was a
viewing for delegate Otto in Princess
Anne that night.
>> The problem I have is
this transportation meeting was
scheduled at the end of July.
So between the end of July
and the end of October,
the executive
planned a fundraiser
the same night as a transportation
meeting with the state of Maryland to
ask the state of Maryland to do all
these projects in Wakcomo County.
>> Ma'am,
>> now I relate this back to
June 30th.
The county executive had a press
conference
>> talking about the landfill,
>> talking about the landfill, all the
problems we had with the landfill, what
was going to have to happen and and
things that needed to be done. And there
was going to be a a meeting on July
15th,
>> a work session,
>> work session to discuss this.
She [clears throat] then went
and
organized a trip for a tour of the White
House on July 15th when the county was
in the middle of a landfill crisis
>> that we were about to close the land
>> that we were getting ready to close it
one day a week and then possibly two
days a week. but she chose to give a
tour of the White House that she
organized
and and went up there to that. So that
was more important to her than the
landfill.
The transportation meeting to me was
another example of her fundraising was
more important to her than talking to
the people
in the government of the state of
Maryland about projects that they want
done here in this county. So, you know,
on another program,
she attacked us as open agenda people
because
at here at one of our programs and also
at a county council meeting, it was
mentioned that, you know, why do we have
to send five people to New York for bond
ratings
when nowadays you do things like this by
Zoom.
>> They've been doing it for five or six
years.
>> Yes. Her response to that was that it's
better if the executive is there in
person [clears throat]
>> to show their commitment and
to help present these things.
>> That that's that's just a
>> well simply not true.
>> That is simply not true. But then a
couple weeks later, you have the
transportation meeting. Well, apparently
when you want money for the county from
the state, it's not important for the
executive to be there for that.
>> She is always touting that she is the
hardest working county executive ever.
And in fact, after looking at it a tape
of her fundraiser, you know, she said
it's about hard work and putting in 115%
every day. Well, she wasn't there, as
you mentioned, for you the uh the work
session about the landfill crisis. She
called it a crisis, but the White House
tour was more important. She had all of
these constituents on the west side who
are concerned about the prospective
Watipkin State Park. Two meetings for
that. She couldn't show up. This
transportation initiatives that uh that
will profoundly affect Wcomako County.
Well, the fundraiser was was, you know,
certainly more important. Look, she she
works very hard at serving herself.
She's not working for the people of
Wcomako County. I think that's
abundantly clear.
>> Yeah. You know, and and I got a phone
call about noon Thursday from a council
member
who said, "Hey, you haven't said
anything about the transportation
meeting tonight and what's going on.
Aren't you going?" And my response was,
"I don't know anything about it." So you
that day I know it happens in October
and November every year, but there's
been no public announcement to me as a
[clears throat] citizen of this county.
>> Embarrassing.
>> A missed opportunity.
>> Well, not only a missed opportunity, but
to me, totally embarrassing for these
people from the state of Maryland to
come down here, make themselves
available at night
for a meeting
in the evening. So, it suits the
citizens of the county to come to the
meeting.
>> Well, thank you both. I appreciate your
insight into this and uh I'm sure
there'll be more about what was in the
transportation meeting as it comes out,
but instead of finding out in person,
people will find out when government
tells them.
>> Yeah.
>> Thanks for watching this episode of Open
Agenda. We'll be back later this week
with another new episode.
You think you can get that in in under a
half an hour?
>> I do.
