You're watching Open Agenda. Here's our
host, Joe Venosa.
Hi, welcome back to this week's episode
of Open Agenda.
We have in the house from Fruitland, Ms.
Trish Melvin. Hi. Hi. And from
Salisbury, Mr. Joe Skufca.
So, you may have heard because there's
been quite a bit of news in the
community regarding waste-to-energy
projects, what some people would call
biorefineries,
that have continued to sort of rear
their head up in our county discussions.
Happened a few weeks ago with the
circuit court ruling regarding the
Hickory Mill Road project. Um has now
sort of been connected to recent events
regarding the proposed uh
waste-to-energy project on St. Luke's
Road in Fruitland.
So, this is something I think that is of
grave concern because we've seen in
recent weeks the county government,
specifically the executive's office,
basically issue press releases and give
varying media
testimonies that that basically parrot
the lines of the
um
people that want to put these facilities
in the county. It's it's it's it's it
would it would be what I would consider
a talking point.
>> a moment to address the recent
information that has been circulating in
the community regarding a proposed
biorefinery project at Bethel Farms. The
way this issue has been presented on
social media by an anonymous
Excuse me, an anonymous person is
misleading and has caused unnecessary
concern among residents.
To be clear, there is no approved
project, no permitted facility, and
nothing moving forward at that location.
What actually occurred is much
different. Acting Director of Public
Works Adam Corry submitted a letter of
support for a grant application in
partnership with Morgan State University
through the Maryland Energy
Administration. It simply expresses
interest in exploring a potential
concept focused on conveying
non-recyclable waste into a usable
energy product. There has also been no
lack of transparency. This concept and
the letter were both presented publicly
by Mr. Corey in multiple meetings.
>> We have somebody um who's come in today
who has a great deal of experience on
these matters cuz they've dealt with
environmental concerns throughout the
county over the last few years and
that's Ms. Danielle Daline from Delmar.
Um have you heard anything recently
about these issues? Well, yeah, again
and again it seems you know, there's
there's a handful of them maybe three
situations that that I am familiar with.
Confuses me and it reminds me of years
ago Governor William Donald Schaefer
called the Eastern Shore an outhouse and
it feels like that. They're sending
all the waste here
from the state.
It is a quote that people remember in
this part of the state for sure. Um
Trish, what I'd like to do if if it's
okay with you is I'd like to bring um
Mikael on and sort of give us not only a
detailed analysis of what's been
happening but really get into the the
specifics of what this could mean uh if
it's not addressed. Stick around and
we'll be right back with our next
segment of Open Agenda.
Welcome back to Open Agenda with us in
the house from Salisbury, Mr. Joe
Cufino.
Sir. And from Delmar, an old friend of
the show
Ms. Mikael Daline. Welcome.
Thank you. Pleasure to have you. So
now that the public has gotten a better
sense of what has happened in recent
weeks regarding the
uh controversy and concerns over what we
would call or what has generally been
called a bio refinery but we what is
really in in truth uh a waste to energy
industrial project. Um
the uh the the the issue that emerged
over that concern obviously was
regarding um the county executive's
decision to rescind support for the
project that was on St. Luke's Road. But
that project on St. Luke's Road of
course, is tied to a bigger dynamic that
I think affects the community. And
really this comes out to the misuse or
the perhaps manipulation of county
zoning codes.
And um
I if if it's okay, I I'd like to talk a
little bit about that because we've seen
this before and it's tied to a broader
set of issues. So,
can we sort of explore that a bit for
the public to sort of get a better
sense?
Uh definitely. And you know, I kind of
want to bring up that
it's perhaps
um there's some really murky muddy
waters because of new technologies, new
things that arise. And um sometimes,
you know, those new things don't fit
neatly into the pigeonholes. Um we don't
know what to do with them. Um
I also believe that our citizens just
need to get ever more actively involved.
We need to be at the meetings. We need
to know what's happening in order to
make the best decisions and to
understand and to help guide the county.
The county executive when when the
public got wind of this Bethel farm on
St. Luke's Road
when the public got wind of that and
made a stink, no pun intended, um
she came out with a
a uh Facebook a video
>> a Facebook live video
>> Yeah, live video. And she could have
said in 2 minutes, "Look, we worded this
kind of sloppily.
We apologize and for the concern. This
isn't going to happen." Would have taken
2 minutes. Instead, she went on for 14
minutes, repeated herself four or five
times, and then she accused some unknown
candidates
um
that
are causing the the the the the problem
and the ruckus. So, again,
it could have been handled way better
and and it was handled by her uh
I think just made it worse.
Well, and
we can focus on what other local
politicians are going to do as far as
how they frame the issue, but but but I
think to your point
earlier, Michael, that that we really
need to maybe help educate the public on
is is why is it that zoning and how it's
used has such an effect in our
community? Because again, it's one thing
for a politician to frame something
after the fact.
It's another thing when we look at how
this affects actual neighborhoods and
communities. Because at the end of the
day, we're talking about industrial
projects that are not zoned for
residential or agricultural areas, and
it seems to be a kind of general trend
we've seen where that process has been
manipulated, perhaps. And I think um
a part that we're missing as well is
that with these new projects, they often
you know, we don't know the effects.
They are pilot programs. They are not
well-known. We don't understand the
long-term implications for health. We
don't know how they will affect um
the enjoyment of people's homes or their
property values, all of which are
central to our life in Wicomico County
and our issues that affect every single
one of us. The problem is is that when
you're taking in a pilot project,
something brand new, Mhm.
and you're going to kind of put it in
somewhere right next to schools, to
parks, to homes, you're gambling with
people's lives, their investments, you
know, their peace and well-being. I
think when people's health and lives are
threatened or possibly threatened, and
the zoning process can be used in that
manner, I think the kind of reaction you
saw in the community to what was going
on on Saint Luke's Road, I think that
that explains the concern. Is that And I
want to kind of um step in here and talk
about how that unfolded.
>> Yeah. Because um you know, for myself um
I'm a big advocate for, you know,
Connelly Mill. That's That's the main
focus of the work that I've been doing.
>> yeah.
So, you know, the biorefinery was not,
you know, um my issue. Mhm. But when we
heard of it and we saw this come up, you
know, we thought to ourselves, we're
like, "Wow, there's a lot of
similarities here. There's a lot of
people who weren't notified. There was a
lot of people who were in the dark and
didn't know that this was coming down
the pike." And then when it did come
down the pike, there was a lot of, um,
"Well, this is in the wrong place." You
know, um, "For ourselves with, uh,
Safari at the Quarry, we weren't
against, Mhm. you know, um, Jeep events.
Yeah. We were against the situation
where they were that broke the promise
that was made to the public. Um, it
might affect, you know, environmentally
sensitive areas. Um, so we became very
actively involved and we went to every
proceeding and hearing,
um, that affected the folks on Hickory
Mill. Well, and and maybe you could talk
a little bit about that more. And what
specific meetings are you talking about?
Can you inform the public of that? And
and and and why this is such a critical
thing to understand? One of the best
places to get information for these type
of, um,
issues that might affect the community,
might affect your neighborhood next, um,
is the NRCAC, which is the Natural
Resource Conservation Advisory
Committee. They are appointed by the
executive branch of the government. Um,
they have representatives of, um,
forestry, agriculture,
um, wildlife. They're They're very
diverse group of people and I can't say
enough good things about them. I've
attended most meetings since, um,
since the issue of Connelly Mill came
up.
>> Mhm. A lot of times, um, things will be
presented there that kind of, um, make
you think, "How's this going to go? Mhm.
How will it play out?" And, um, this is
actually how I found out about the issue
in Fruitland. Um, I was attending an
NRCAC meeting. I saw, um,
acting Deputy Director M. Corey's
presentation on this waste-to-energy
program. Mhm. And um
you know, as I stated, having been with
the folks at the biorefinery for all of
their hearings and having sat through
the 2 and 1/2-hour circuit court
hearing, Yeah.
>> um
I was listening and these like little
red flags were raised for me. I was
like, "Wow, this really sounds like the
same process."
This really um You've seen this movie
before.
>> Yeah, you know, and I'm thinking to
myself and I'm hearing um you know, they
asked at the NRCAC, they said, you know,
"Will this be cited at the landfill?"
And I'm like, "Well, that wouldn't be a
bad idea. If we're going to do a
waste-to-energy, why not right at the
landfill?" Yeah. Now, M. Corey says,
"No, it'll be on a chicken farm."
And he says the chicken farm will be um
16 miles or minutes, you know,
alternately to the landfill.
And I'm thinking to myself, well,
doesn't have to be agricultural zoning?
That's exactly what the circuit court
Yeah. ruled against. But and from my
perspective, um that meeting was March
11th.
I think March 13th, I wrote to the folks
at the biorefinery and said, "Hey, I saw
this thing of interest. Mhm. I think
maybe you guys should look into it. I
don't really have answers. I'm not sure
of the zoning. I'm not sure the
processes, yeah, but it's worth a look."
And from that time, they did take a look
and there was feedback and they were,
you know, trying to get answers. They
were engaging with the council. They
were engaging with the administration.
Um
some of these answers were very unclear.
Mhm. Some of them left more questions
than before. Mhm. And eventually a PIA
was filed. Yeah. And when the PIA came
out, it was much more distressing. It
had a
area that was cited as Bethel Farms,
which was in the exact same zoning as
Hickory Mill was
>> A-1. A-1. Yeah, I agree. Okay. And um
the the the description from the NRCAC
meeting and from those letters was the
same process. Mhm.
Even the argument that Kathuria, who was
the Hickory Mill bio refinery lawyer
used, was the same argument. Small pilot
project, um going to produce syngas
that's going to be used on site.
>> Red flags but based on a pattern. Yeah.
It sounds like either the executive
office or the administration is trying
to either obscure or manipulate the
process because as you said, it took a
PIA request to get actual detailed
information about what their intentions
were.
You know, I'm going to go a little bit
I'm going to give a little bit more
grace than that and I'm going to say
that from where I sit, what it looks
like is it was overlooked that they
didn't sit in the two and a half hour
court case and they may not have had all
of that perspective that somebody that
attended all that did. Problem is Mhm.
is that if you don't and it's pointed
out
>> Mhm. as as Joe said earlier, the thing
to say is, hey, you know, we kind of
screwed that one up a little bit. Let's
work together and take
>> Take accountability for it.
>> And if you do that, I think you gain
respect. Yeah.
>> on the attack, Well, to go on the
attack, yeah, that was my my thing too.
I look I I watched the video after the
people that and look, I got to be
honest, I thought it was quite unhinged,
um
and to say the least. And and I uh
it's interesting that it was
it was clearly done out of fear because
my read on it is the executive is
worried about re-election and then this
comes into play in in why you explain
like there's there's a little expression
if you're explaining you're losing.
Well, if you're explaining for 14
minutes,
um
you can interpret that however you will
but but I I think that to your point
like Watergate, it's not so much the
crime, it's the cover-up or the attempt
to kind of restate the past even though
the documents say otherwise. And I and I
think that's the thing. We all want
what? Transparency. We want community
involvement and we don't want to have
this sort of toxic uh blame game when
all it took would have been a hey, this
looks like an oversight on our part.
We're going to address it because our
zoning does say it can't happen. Right.
The The claims that, you know, they were
never going to let this happen are just
very much belied. I mean, I I asked a
question on the live video. I said,
"Well, here's two quotes from the letter
that say this will be in this zone. We
understand that this is the host farm,
and we know this is the process."
And that's really like hard to say we
didn't know. And the community has to
know that like zoning issues can be very
complicated. Not everybody has the time
to go to these commission meetings. And
so, if you're a regular person who's
living out in Fruitland, and you hear
about a possible, whether you want to
call it a biorefinery or a
waste-to-energy industrial project, um
you you you almost you have to have
people who can not only articulate those
issues in a direct way, but they have to
have the actual facts in an honest way,
rather than, you know, try to obscure or
or put yourself into all these
rhetorical contortions to just explain
something away. And I think that's the
problem. The public loses when we don't
have transparency. The more perspectives
you get on it, the less likely that
mistakes are going to be made. And if
somebody over here sees something that
somebody over here doesn't see, that
that is collaboration.
>> Collaboration.
>> And that's community.
>> Yeah.
>> And so, when I saw that live, I was
really disturbed because I was like, you
know, here's a group of people that have
been through a lot, and they're kind of,
you know, battle tested and and weary
of, you know, what's going on, and
they're still engaging in productive
ways.
>> Yeah. And then it's just I didn't even
see that that post had anything against
anybody in particular. It was just
here's some concerns. Yeah. Reach out to
your The reaction says more than the So,
it was it was very confusing to me that
it was framed as pitchforks. I I have a
question for McKell. The NRCC,
is that committee made up of local
county people?
>> Yeah. Well, yes, but they are mostly
experts in their fields.
>> Right. I understood that, but I wasn't
sure if they were from the state or No,
they're they're they're pretty much
local.
>> that's good. That really helped. It's at
the um government office building. It's
not in the chambers. It's a little small
room. Sometimes it's hard to fit
yourself in. Yeah, you have to get some
little chairs in the corner.
But um yeah, there's a lot to be learned
there and there's a wealth of knowledge.
But I think that the community
perspective is really important because
you know, you I mean, somebody on one
side of the community is not going to
know what somebody on the other side
does. Well, and the more representation,
the better. And to your point,
collaboration is not inherently
conflict. And I think anybody who who
assumes that has different motives
perhaps. So that that that I find a very
disturbing and chilling um
aspect of all this, especially um I
wasn't going to go to the county council
that night where I gave comments. What I
saw today on the Facebook live really
disturbed me. It was basically saying
that people who stand up and try to get
information out there are political
pot-stirrers, that they are doing
something bad, that they are trying to
cause panic. And I don't see that to be
the case at all. I mean, I've been
through every step of this. I've seen
the communications. I've seen the people
asking. I've seen the people filing
Freedom of Information Acts when they
don't get the information that they
requested. I've seen them ask you guys.
I've seen you guys say we don't know
what's going on. I've seen all the parts
that happened before that post
was made. And all that should be
honored. That's the work of the
community coming together and trying to
do something good to educate
all of us at once.
So, you know, could we have some better
communication? Could we not blame people
that try to shine light on things that
are a problem? So Michael, what can the
public actually perhaps do or what we
can what can we do in Wicomico County to
perhaps in the future provide guidelines
or protections from these kinds of
issues occurring in the future with
regard to zoning um
mismanagement or uh
manipulation.
The more that I have seen these issues
arise, um you know, I think we have we
we have um Tracy Taylor now who is in
planning and zoning and you know, she's
newly on board, but from what I've seen
she's done a remarkable job. Yep. I
think she's a true asset to the
community. Um I was able to briefly
speak with her at a county council
meeting the other night and I said I
wanted to reach out to her again about
the fact that these type of um new
technologies um
I believe they're going to require some
special protections. I think that we
might need to look at this
legislatively. Mhm. I think that we um
I'm hearing a lot right now, well, keep
it in industrial, but a deep concern
that I have is in our county a lot of
industrial backs up to schools. A lot of
industrial backs up to neighborhoods.
>> Yes. And so if all of a sudden we're
going to move these brand new pilot
programs that we really don't know how
they're going to affect
>> Mhm. we need to look not just at
industrial. We can't pigeonhole it in.
>> Mhm. We have to look at what's around
it. Mhm. What public places are
affected? And most of all how are we
going to protect the physical health of
our communities, the mental health of
our communities, um peace in the
investments of their properties. Mhm.
These are things that
>> quality of life. Well, thank you so much
for your insights and for kind of going
through the
um
course of events and for clarifying for
the public. Stick around and we'll be
right back for the next segment of Open
Agenda.
Welcome back to Open Agenda. Returning
with us from Fruitland, Miss Trish
Melson. Thank you, Trish. And Mikael, as
always, uh brings an incredible wealth
of information. I thought she personally
did a really good job laying out not
only the back story to the concerns that
of these that were going on with St.
Luke's Road, but as she alluded to, you
know, there's a history here with other
projects. And specifically, she made
reference to the fact that, you know,
there was a circuit court ruling about
the biorefinery that was planned out on
Hickory Hill. You know, it all boils
down to this this problem that we
encounter, waste to energy. Or or what
to do with our waste. Um
and waste to energy is one solution. And
I can see there's two countervailing
forces at play. One is let's locate it
on a farm. That way it's right to farm
and you can you have a lot more freedom
to with your your activities under right
to farm.
But an industrial process is not allowed
on a farm. That's non-conforming. So,
that means that the process would Why
not do it at the landfill?
Well, you you you lose your right to
farm protections when you move it to the
landfill. So, Joe, I have a question for
you. And you're paralegal, so you can
probably answer this maybe better than
most. Um it seems that over the course
of well, quite a while, the county
executive has basically been making the
arguments
um that were litigated against the
county
in the prior lawsuit regarding the
project on Hickory Hill Road. So, here's
my question to you. Do you think that
the executive's recent public comments
that were made at the April 7th County
Council meeting, as well as her
meltdown
um on Facebook that she made in that
14-minute video, do you think that
anything that was
um said by the executive would be used
by the defendant in a future appeal
regarding that project? Anything is fair
game.
Uh so, it theoretically it could be
used. Will it be helpful?
I don't think so. Um
but that's up to that's up to the
uh the attorneys. You never ask a
question you don't know the answer to.
And And on cross-examination
her what she said would, in my opinion,
be destroyed. So, I I think we're safe
on that. But, she she totally misspoke.
What do you think about this? You've
studied the lawsuit and you've studied
the specifics of the case
in regards to what happened in the other
part of the county.
What can we take away from this? Uh it's
pretty cut and dried. Uh
the the Cathcart Farms, they've appealed
their loss again. And it it just seems
like
a um
an ef- an effort that's going nowhere. I
mean, the court the the zoning
hearing board which at which the the
court
in in Myrick
quoted
said that the department determined that
operating a biorefinery to process
poultry litter is not an allowable use
in the A-1 zoning district. The
department noted that processed products
are explicitly excluded from the
definition of agricultural products in
chapter 225.
And then the court said, "Accordingly,
the board concluded that the biorefinery
produces processed products and
therefore does not qualify as an
agricultural product under the plain
language of the zoning code."
What's there to appeal? That's what
confuses me is that we've been through
this and very recently. And why are why
are we having this discussion now about
St. Luke's Road? You know, we hashed out
this same situation before. And the fact
that it's a non-conforming use. It's not
agricultural. It's not on-farm use,
which is another reason um
I When you see the words for use on
farm, that's a huge red flag because
it's not it's not ever in these three
situations um that come to my mind.
It just seems again to McKale's point
that the overreaction of county
leadership on this
>> Mhm.
knowing what we know about how the
circuit court ruled and knowing that
there's now a very documented
history here about hopefully what they
won't allow. What do we make of that? I
guess is is the question for the average
citizen. I mean
>> is it incompetence? I mean again as
McKale said I don't think it was
nefarious. I think it was just
incompetence. I mean there's a paper
trail. The letters Joe Holloway at the
at the county council meeting read the
letter that they denied
existed like have the opportunity to
listen to the um
county executive's Facebook post or the
post that she was criticizing
um and we didn't really the council
didn't know about this biorefinery issue
on
um St. Luke's Road.
But
there was a letter that went out.
Now if you were just a citizen and you
got a hold of this letter
I'm going to read
the first couple sentences and it's
about three long paragraphs that
identifies the
the farm and and all that but this first
sentence
if you read this it says the Wicomico
County Department of Public Works is
pleased to affirm our desire to partner
with Morgan State University Center for
advanced energy systems and
environmental control technologies for
their proposed
project to produce high quality
briquettes by
combining non-recyclable municipal solid
waste residues with poultry litter.
We understand these briquettes will be
used to generate syngas for on-site
energy production at a nearby Bethel
poultry operation in Salisbury. Now, if
you
didn't know anything about all this and
you read that and since then
the public works director has come out
and
basically, I guess, kind of corrected
what the intent was, but if you just
read that, what's that say to you?
It says to you that
this is what the county wants to do.
Now, um
in the end, let's say,
this was carbon copied to
Julie Giordano, Bunky Luffman,
Mrs. Jana Henry, Stephen Chamberlain,
and Andrew Illuminati. So, the council
Here we are again, we're surprised. They
denied that oh, there was no no ident-
no location or anything and that letter
stated
the Bethel farm.
>> So, either the letter that exists is
lying to us
or somebody in county government is.
Well, just the fact that the details
were not readily available makes you
wonder.
Right, you have to do a PIA request.
That that yeah. Well, let me ask a
question. Do you think with the and this
is with regards to the um
recent decision by the circuit court on
the viral refinery at Hickory Mill Land,
do do you think that there is a shot
that this appeal will go somewhere? I
mean, why why would he engage in it if
Look, it's a $2 million project. He got
a $2 million grant. Um
>> It's our money. It's our money and our
taxpayer dollars are fighting it, but
when when there's millions of dollars
that the state has an interest in,
you know, the fat lady hasn't sung yet,
unfortunately. And I've I've I think
we've all seen cases that looked like
slam dunks and then all of a sudden
it's reversed and there's nothing we can
do. Mhm. So, we need to stay vigilant
and and and again,
we we need to support our neighbors,
even though it may not affect us right
now. You know,
like in Fruitland,
whoever expected that? Yeah. So, you
know, we need to hang together. Do you
think And again, I'd like to go back
briefly to what Michael had said that,
you know,
perhaps part of this can be addressed in
the future by having more legislative
action.
Do you think there's going to be a
possibility that the council will
perhaps pursue
a legislative remedy to make
Special zoning here. Special zoning,
yeah. To clarify that these waste
>> the things we already have that should
be followed. Yeah. We have to put Do we
have to put more guardrails on the
guardrails? But those laws exist,
regulations exist already. Is it just
simply a matter of of enforcing them? I
don't know exactly. Yeah.
I don't know. Um, but
it happens too frequently that Wicomico
County seems to be the destination for
these waste-to-energy projects, and um,
there's a reason why. I don't know what
that reason, but you know, we should
start looking at that. It should be
built elsewhere. Yeah, why why Yeah, why
are people coming to our county for
these projects in this way?
I mean, we
>> the DEFT
>> can exactly. That's what I was going to
say. said no way. So, oh, let's go to
Wicomico, they'll take it. And we did.
And that in That that could be a whole
'nother episode
because if you read the
the lawsuit that exists on that now,
the the permitting process was
railroaded.
It was incredible. I'm I'm
shocked. I've I've heard that's a very
stinky issue, too, yeah.
Sorry.
Okay. Dad jokes.
Well,
ultimately, I think we're going to see
what happens in the coming weeks with
regard to not only the appeal on the
Hickory Hill project.
>> to take months.
>> That's going to take months. It's going
to take months. But but but we will see
it hopefully in the future some kind of
resolution. And it sounds like at least
for the time being the issues that were
going to happen on St. Luke's Road and
Fruitland have been
frozen, paused, rescinded.
Hard to tell.
>> Hard to tell. I'll be really curious to
see what happens after the election.
Yeah. Um and later in the year if that
has any bearing on what what happens or
doesn't happen. But I think it's
important as
Michael demonstrated that um you know,
citizens have to stay vigilant, they
have to stay educated, and perhaps more
importantly, they have to educate others
that may not have the time or resources
to be as involved. You know, we we have
the luxury of doing that in comparison.
So, well, thank you so much for your
time and your analysis. And uh again,
hopefully we'll have more to report to
the public on in the near future. Um
thank you. Okay. All right. And thank
you for watching. Uh we'll be back with
a new episode later on. Take care.
Ben Franklin said, "We must indeed all
hang together
or most assuredly we'll all hang
separately."
