We discuss efforts to place a referendum on the November ballot that, if approved by voters, would grant collective bargaining rights to Salisbury city employees. Questions have arisen, however, as to whether the group promoting the referendum has complied with applicable state election laws. We will walk you through the State's requirements and identify several possible areas of noncompliance that could stop this ballot initiative in its tracks. On a different topic, we discuss the possibility of AI data centers coming to Salisbury in the future. Will the city Planning Commission try to protect us from the negative impacts of data centers, which could include excessive use of limited electric and water supplies?
Open Agenda TV S3 E36 Salisbury Ballot Initiative and Planning Commission Updates
Show Transcript
Disclaimer: The following transcript was auto-generated and may contain spelling or contextual errors.
You're watching Open Agenda.
>> Welcome to Open Agenda. I'm the hosting
this week. My name's Joe White, and in
the studio is Joe Scaffina from
Salisbury. Thank you, Joe. Michael
Langford from Salisbury. Thank you both
for being here.
>> Thanks for having me.
>> So, this episode is geared towards the
city of Salisbury and some of the topics
that we're seeing come up time and time
again, and some of the follow-up that
we're expecting. So, we're going to
spend some time in this episode kind of
updating where we're at, and also giving
them the lay of the land of where things
are probably going. Specifically, the
ballot issue to get the collective
bargaining agreement on as a referendum
in November. We have specific updates
there, but also some other issues parts
of that that we're going to be watching
in the near future, right Michael?
>> Yep. Lots going on.
>> And then we're going to see the
Salisbury Planning Commission have a
meeting today filming day, July 9th, at
4:00 over at the
at the government office building. This
is the first time that data centers are
really starting to kind of come into the
vernacular on the Planning Commission.
And finally, the city of Salisbury is
having their state-of-the-city address
at Salisbury University this evening at
6:00 p.m. over the academic commons. And
that's going to give us an update from
the mayor some of the highlights, of
course, but maybe even some of the
challenges they're hoping to overcome in
the next year.
So,
I'd like to take a small break, come
back, and start to go through those
three topics. Then also, I want everyone
to know that in a couple weeks or less,
we'll come back and give everyone an
update on those same topics. So, will
you all stick around?
>> Absolutely.
>> So, stay with us. When we come back,
we're going to dive into the current
condition of the city of Salisbury. So,
stay with us. We'll be right back.
Welcome back to Open Agenda. Still in
the studio with us is Joe Scaffina from
Salisbury. Thank you, Joe, for sticking
around. Michael Langford from Salisbury.
Thanks for sticking around.
>> Thanks for having me.
>> So, as we said before, we want to give
everyone an air of what's coming up on
the city council, what's on their
agenda, what items Mayor Randy Taylor
has been discussing. And and I want to
start with one that you have been very
active with and public about, Michael,
is the ballot issue to get the the the
collective bargaining on as a referendum
this November.
>> Mhm.
>> We have seen it posted in media that the
the group that was collecting signatures
has submitted over 6,000 signatures to
the city election board, which would
then have to go to the county to be
approved. But our understanding right
now is that they're actually still in
possession with the city.
What what are some of the concerns that
are coming up?
>> So, um
essentially, there's a concern about the
process of how they collected and
obtained these signatures. So, when
you're on a signature campaign, it's
like running a candidate, you know, you
know, running for office, you have to
have a treasurer, you have to do
filings, you have to have a bank
account, you know, open for that
campaign. Well, likewise, a ballot issue
campaign is the same as running a
candidate.
>> Okay.
>> You need to have a treasurer, you have
to have But instead of a person a
candidate that you're running, you need
a what's called a ballot issue
committee. And it's very clear in state
election law, which is very strict about
these things. And the ballot issue
committee is that there's more
[clears throat] than one registered
voter within the jurisdiction that
you're you're hoping that this ballot
issue will affect. So, in this case,
within the city of Salisbury, you need
several registered voters that form
ballot issue committee,
>> Okay.
>> open a bank account for this
issue, and appoint a treasurer, and and
they're subject to campaign finance
before they collect a signature. And the
state law is very clear, underlined,
uh in bold and italics, that it is
before you spend any money or you
collect any signatures, you must form
the ballot issue committee.
>> And what do you what do you think they
have spent money on?
>> So, um I mean you can go on their social
media accounts and see there there are
uh you know, paid for by Shore Progress
PAC and it's about the signature
petition drive and telling people they
can go to Cannon Building downtown and
etc. as well as um
you know, they were very vocal about
people but both within their camp and
you know, out-of-towners when the
petition uh the people collecting the
signatures, right? They were very vocal
about they're getting paid.
>> Okay.
>> You know, so the union brought in people
there people even coming from as far as
Michigan I heard that um that just
needed this like gig job for the summer
so they're coming for you know, for for
a little over a month to to work on
this. But like if they spent money to
get this, it's one thing now if you
um the only exception to this would be
like if they had just collected the
signatures.
>> Like they didn't spend any money.
>> They they did not advertise it, they did
not promote it with paying money, they
did not pay anyone to go around and
collect and get signatures, they didn't
it it just citizens. But then of course,
you know, and they would still have the
same amount of time, 40 days, but um to
collect the signatures but because they
spent money on it, they have to at first
form this ballot issue committee. The
same way as a candidate, you're going to
be fined if you just run and you don't
file.
>> And and you've done research that says
that they have definitely not served one
and and how can you elaborate on that?
>> you go on the State Board of Elections
website, you can look up every ballot
issue committee for the state of
Maryland, period. There's currently 85
and um going through all of them,
there's nothing for Wicomico County.
>> Okay.
>> So, it's just very clear that they did
not do it.
>> Nothing for Wicomico County, nothing for
the city of Salisbury.
>> Yeah, and and these are things that you
know, you're running for office so you
know, they've been updating these you
they're updating these financial
reports.
>> in real time.
>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah, so it's very it's very
up-to-date information. So, it's like
the fact that the 40-day period has a
lot of
of allotment the allotted 40 period
40-day period
um to collect the signatures has passed
and yet there's just no sign of this
ballot issue coming.
>> That That would seem not to jive with
what I've seen so far.
>> Yeah.
>> Jessica Vena, you've been at the
Salisbury City Council meetings when the
City Council voted to dissolve the CBA.
You have
you know, I'm sure been in Salisbury.
Have you been approached by anybody
who's asked for signatures?
>> Yeah, and I and I actually signed the
petition. Um I have no problem
letting the voters decide how they want
their tax dollars spent. But as Mike has
has uh
alluded to, the the process appears to
not have been followed properly, which
would invalidate the entire effort.
>> Okay. And And the the one gentleman I
ran into and actually was working at
early voting when when I was out there
was from out of state. So, I would say
that he was probably not a volunteer. It
would I I I don't know for sure. It
would be safe to say he didn't come all
the way here to volunteer his time.
>> Exactly.
>> Uh Did you run into any that you were
very sure in one way or another were
actually employees of the ballot
initiative?
>> Actually,
um
um Brendan from the fire department is a
neighbor. So, he came around to my
neighborhood. So, my neighborhood was
pretty much covered by him and and and
another fellow. So,
I think the the paid people were out in
the outskirts. I mean, Salisbury
is is not a contiguous city. So,
>> web.
>> Yeah, exactly. So, I think uh the paid
people were out in those
>> pockets.
>> out pockets. It's the good good
>> So, So, Michael, you had mentioned
before that the the the city has
possession of the the uh signatures.
>> Yes, they've turned them in.
>> And there's a process that they have to
pay the county election board to verify
the signatures. So, there's a an expense
for the city of Salisbury, and that's
been discussed. It's It's widely known.
So, Michael,
if there's a possibility that this
process has has not been followed and
these signatures are never going to be
validated. Is there a potential that the
city of Salisbury actually never turns
them over to the county for validation
at at the city's expense?
>> Um, yeah, I think that makes sense for
the city not to incur an expense if it's
needless um as this is like still under
investigation both by the state and
local officials.
Um you know, I think we just have to
wait and see.
>> Okay.
>> What happens next?
>> Now Joe, you you had mentioned that you
were actually in favor of getting this
on a referendum.
If if it is actually found that they did
not follow the process, would that
change how you feel about what this
process
where we're at with this process? Does
it they're not following the rules, does
it affect what you
>> don't follow the rules. It's it's a it's
it's it's moot point. It's done and it
will not go to referendum and there'll
be no union for the foreseeable future.
>> So,
oh good. I'm sorry.
>> And and what I find
confusing or or troubling is
the union was involved in this effort.
They had to know
that they were required to file this.
This isn't their first rodeo. So, I'm
really baffled as to
why it appears that this committee was
not formed.
>> So, I think I can answer that is
the misapprehension that I think these
people have legally is that first off, I
tell people this all the time, don't
trust Shore Progress. They don't know.
It's not It's not that I disagree with
them. It's just that in a position of
ignorance, you should not trust the
person who's ignorant of the process.
And I think that what happened is they
looked at the charter
whoever whether it be the people in the
fire department who aren't lawyers or
the people in the Shore Progress who
don't have access to a lawyer and that
all of those people themselves are
fairly ignorant of the law and how it
works. I think they looked at the city
charter which doesn't have that aspect
about the ballot issue committee and
then but I've been saying to people the
law is additive like taxes. If you go
into a
a town and it has a town tax, you also
pay the county and the state and the
feds. You don't pick and choose which
taxes you pay and you don't pick and
choose which laws you follow when it
comes to election law.
>> So they have to follow state law
>> They have to follow state law even if
there are like particulars in your local
jurisdictional context and in this case
it's it seems to be the crux of the
matter really hinges upon since they
spent money to collect these signatures,
this is why they have to do it. And
that's not in our city charter but it
doesn't have to be that be a valid law
about you know what's relevant.
>> Look, as someone who's who's an observer
and and a as someone who's always
rooting for for the city of Salisbury to
do better for itself and consequently
the county,
I I I want this the residents of the
city of Salisbury to to make their own
choices, but I do want
that if there is if there are parameters
and guidelines, they must be followed.
Speaking of which, we Oh good. Yeah,
someone
>> Yeah, I mean I think I think that's
what's common to all of us even if we
have different personal beliefs about
politics, we all believe in rule of law.
>> Yeah.
>> Otherwise why are you having a
conversation? You just want to do
whatever you want to do and that is
really why the ballot issue committee
exists and so that registered voters
within the jurisdiction that we're
talking about affecting the that the
legislation, the referendum, what it
would affect is our local context. So
people from that local context
um have to form the ballot issue
committee so that it's not just some
out-of-town person who comes or some
person who has a exorbitant amount of
wealth who comes and puts the like this
is my preference, I'm putting it on the
ballot and I'm going to pay all these
people to get the signatures so I can
push through my personal agenda.
>> You know that's that's that's a very
valid point.
>> That is why the system exists.
>> Yeah, the protection is to keep outside
influences from dictating our our own
>> local
>> will. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> How we live here. And at the expense of
the city to get even whether or not this
referendum is legitimate or not, there's
still an expense. So if every time
someone from the outside wanted to come
in and just ring up a bill,
>> Yeah.
>> that would that would not be in the in
the best interest of democracy, either.
So,
>> No.
>> Well, speaking of of things that we're
also looking forward to, we we know, and
I want to discuss in the next segment,
that there's a state of the city address
for the Mayor Taylor on July 9th, which
is this evening, 6:00, and also the
planning uh Salisbury Planning
Commission has a meeting at 4:00 talk
about data centers. I'd like to take a
break. When we come back, I want to get
your perspective, cuz we're going to
cover this more next week and the week
after as more information comes out, but
what questions should people be asking
as they go into these other events,
okay? So, stay with us. When we come
back, we're going to talk about the
Salisbury City Planning Commission and
the state of the city address on July
9th.
Welcome back to Open Agenda on PAC 14.
Still with us in the studio is Joe
Scaffino from Salisbury. Thanks for
sticking around. Michael Langford, thank
you for sticking around.
>> Thanks for having me.
>> So,
there is a a state of the city address
on Janu- I'm sorry, on July 9th, uh
6:00. Now, it's going to be at the
Salisbury
uh one of the the academic commons,
right? So, it's going to be at Salisbury
University Academic Commons.
Uh what do you What do you think's going
to come up out of this out of this
presentation?
>> Um I mean, I think we're I think it's
going to be the mayor talking about the
highlights of what this administration
has accomplished. I mean, they fixed
Carroll Street. They fixed the flooding
on Fitzwater. They're first new
construction in a decade within the city
in the waterside park. Expansion and
approval um of, you know, upcoming new
public parks in parts of town that have
been neglected historically. I mean,
there actually is a lot of good
happening in the city. You just wouldn't
necessarily know it if you watch the
regular press.
>> Okay.
>> [laughter]
>> So, Joe, I I heard you say you're you're
planning on attending. What What are you
Are you Is there a subject you're hoping
to hear more about, or is there
something you're expecting to hear
tonight?
>> No, I just want to hear the mayor uh hit
the high high notes like like Mike
mentioned. Um
a lot of these parks had been have been
on the
on the radar for the city for years and
prior administration just kept kicking
the can down the road and a lot of them
were on the west side of the city and I
know for a fact
Council President April Jackson
>> [clears throat]
>> is very grateful to the mayor and
ecstatic that and her constituents are
very happy seeing finally these projects
come to fruition.
>> Yeah, responsiveness of their local
government too.
>> Exactly. Which they did not have under
prior administration.
>> I'm very tied with the recreational
community mostly with the county but
we're very much you know hand in hand
with the city.
The the amount of usable park space
whether it's for passive use,
playgrounds, walking trails, but also
better lighting uh more access
>> It it it it's palpable.
>> There are people who are now starting to
say that there are parks to use and
reasons to use them.
>> Yeah.
>> And I know there's still a lot of work
left to be done but I I do hope that
Mayor Taylor does talk about that
tonight. I'll be watching it it'll be on
PAC 14 and it would give me a a good
chance. I'm always rooting for the city
of Salisbury to do well. It sounds like
these are positive things and that
you're right about the press. They don't
talk much about them.
>> No.
>> One thing we are hearing about though
I've heard this from from folks in my
part of the county on the east side to
to folks right in Salisbury there's this
perception that a data center coming is
eminent. And the Salisbury Planning
Commission is meeting and and they're
not meeting to approve a data center.
This was I can't tell you how many
people called me worried that they were
meeting to approve one. They're they're
trying to upgrade the text in the
zoning.
>> Is that correct?
>> Correct.
>> Michael, can you explain that and Joe I
want to get your insight on this as
well.
>> So they're adding in a definition of a
data center because it's it's kind of
like how, you know, in the Constitution
there's no mention of automatic assault
weapons or automobiles because they
didn't exist. So, likewise, our zoning
code needs to be updated to address um
even what a data center is because
currently the legislation, you know, our
our policy doesn't address any of that.
So, they're adding a definition and then
I believe a special exemption that would
allow for within the light industrial
zones within the city, which very much
concerns me. That part I'm like, you
want to add the definition, fine.
Allowing for a special exemption within
a light industrial zone is a bizarre
move to me because those light
industrial are adjacent to residential.
>> Okay.
>> And so, a lot of these data centers,
even just the, you know, the noise that
they generate, again, I've heard 80
decibels.
Um so, that's a significant constant
presence.
>> I would tell you
as a former golf course superintendent,
80 decibels is about the equivalent of a
fan running non-stop.
Um so, it's it's it's it's not not
>> Right. [clears throat]
>> And and yet it's not considered a static
or it's it is it's not an acute noise
like a pop or bang, but it's a static
noise. It's it's there all the time. Uh
Joe, you and I were talking off camera
before we we filmed. It's very unlikely
that anybody would choose to put a data
center in the city of Salisbury because
of the cost of the the land and also the
availability of water. Paying for water
on the city rates would probably nix
that.
>> Yeah.
>> But this this is good for the county
residents, whether you're on the east
side, west side, Delmar area, Fruitland,
to to be taking note
because
what is happening in Salisbury could
also come out to the county.
So, should county residents be looking
at this because it's
probably more likely we see this out in
Mardela or Sharptown?
>> Absolutely. And
uh, Atkins has been
uh, hammering this issue at the County
Council meetings.
>> Data centers are large industrial
facilities that can occupy hundreds of
thousands of square feet
while only employing
30 to 50 people full-time people.
Maryland currently has four counties
that have either banned or have a
moratorium on data centers.
We talked uh, at the last Council
meeting about power consumption. A large
data center can consume 80,000
to 100,000
average homes.
Since 2018, Maryland has retired 6,000
megawatts of power generation in the
state.
While they've retired 6,000 megawatts,
they have only
added new 1,600 megawatts.
So, we have seen a significant decrease
in the past eight years.
Uh, water usage is a major problem. Uh,
data centers, depending on their size,
can consume anywhere from 60 million
gallons per year to 110 million gallons
per year.
Uh, we're sitting on top of the paleo
channel,
which according to the geological
[clears throat]
surveys has an estimated 7 billion
gallons of storage of water.
So, uh, thankfully, it's a infinite
number that can keep refilling itself,
but if it didn't, think about it this
way.
The paleo channel with a large data
center would be emptied in 3.8 years. We
would have no water on Eastern Shore,
drinkable water.
Noise pollution uh, is a definite
problem.
Federal Berg uh,
Mako sat here two weeks
and told you they didn't think that the
Eastern Shore was right for data
centers. And lo and behold, the very
next day Federalsburg announces that
they're having a public hearing about
putting a data center in Federalsburg.
So, so much for that belief.
Uh they say that in order to have a data
data center, you need electricity and
water, which you do.
But, you also need land.
Metropolitan areas don't have a lot of
land. We do. We need to protect it. So,
I would ask, hopefully, that uh
at the meeting in Federalsburg next week
on I believe it's the 17th,
uh that we have some people there
listening to them, seeing what they have
to say.
And if we don't feel that we can ban
data centers in the county, maybe we
need to work on legislation that would
limit
the amount of water usages that they
have, the amount of electricity that
they can have, the zoning that they can
be put in, uh the noise that they're
allowed to put out to the public. Uh we
may not be able to ban them, but maybe
we can put enough restrictions on them
that they won't be interested in this
county. Thank you.
>> Cuz he he's he's in an area with a lot
of open space.
Uh like you said, the west eastern west
extremes of the county have a lot of
open space. And those people should be
concerned.
Uh we don't as again, it's almost
beating a dead horse, but like Jim said,
we don't have the
uh grid capacity
to maintain these.
The water consumption is in the millions
of gallons, which would drain our polyo
channel. Uh so, yeah, the I would think
uh our our citizens should absolutely be
concerned throughout the county.
>> There's one resource out on the west
side that's probably a little bit more
prevalent than the rest of the county is
is they have access to two different
rivers, the Nanticoke and the Wicomico.
Over on the east side, we have the
Pocomoke. It's on the very easternmost
part of the county. And And the Pocomoke
is not a wide but yeah it's a very deep
river. The Nanticoke and the Wicomico
are are wider rivers.
I I think I'd be more concerned over on
the west side, but I think all of us,
whether you live in the city or live in
the county or even live in a neighboring
county, should probably watch the
Salisbury Planning Commission because
some of the some of the mechanisms they
started putting into place we were
talking about Federalsburg before.
>> Right.
>> These things have a tendency to set
precedent, right?
>> Yes. That's That's I'm concerned about
enabling legislation that enables new
behaviors and moves on the proverbial
board of our society cuz that's really
what a lot of the law's about. It's
about what's an allowable move. And
right now, it's not allowable by any
like stretch of the current laws on the
books.
>> Because it's omitted.
>> Yes, because it's not in there. And so
it's not So it's not a permittable move
to build a data center.
>> Um
I read the the packet and the reason
they're doing this is because it's
ambiguous and it it they're concerned it
could go in light industrial as the code
is written right now.
>> Without an exception
>> an exception they're trying to stretch
the meaning of the term
battery storage centers, which is what's
currently in the code. And so they're
trying to
be like this is like a data center, but
it's not.
>> No, it's not a data center.
>> not like a data center.
>> A battery storage facility is not used
water.
>> has to do with computers, it's the same
thing. That's That's the mentality, but
legally, I don't think it is.
>> Right.
>> Well, look good.
>> And And you brought up the rivers.
My understanding is they need fresh
water.
>> Okay.
>> They can't use salt water or briny
water.
>> Okay.
>> All right. It has to be fresh.
Otherwise, it's could be corrosive.
>> Well, what See they brought they did an
intake of water similar to a power
plant. They they could I mean desal
yeah, I mean it's an added expense but
the Nanticoke upstream [clears throat]
Sharptown is is a freshwater body. Well,
I think that's why you see the Vienna
power plant on the Nanticoke.
It's again not I'm not even saying
whether I was for or against it. It's
just interesting to to to see this
precedent and I think anytime one body
is starting to set precedent and even by
coming up with an exception in light
industrial, you are now setting
precedent that okay, this these are the
types of moves you could make and then
maybe there's a push later on and again
hypothetically to put a light industrial
right outside of one of our Westside
towns. I don't even want to name one
because I don't want anybody to think
this is actually happening.
>> Right. Yes.
>> But um
the [clears throat]
it'll be interesting to see just how
this works. We're also starting to to
get a little bit more of a feel of how
the separate Salisbury Planning
Commission and the county planning and
zoning are going to function with each
other. Don't you think? I mean there's
>> Yeah, I think
>> They used to be one body and now they're
separate.
>> Yeah, I think
I think you're right. I've been
encouraging people to write letters in
to the Salisbury Planning Commission
about this issue for for this past week,
you know, just as it it was only
announced the the the packet for it only
came out last Thursday.
>> Okay.
>> So this is so I mean one of the problems
with the local issues, right? Is
communication, dissemination, meeting
minutes, agendas getting out in a timely
manner. It's like we're local. We're
we're small. We're rural area. So
[clears throat] it's like you kind of
have to pay really pay attention in
order to have you've had a week to
respond to this.
>> Yeah, not very long.
>> Not very long at all and I think a lot
of people have a problem with that, but
it's like this isn't it's it's not a
it's not your daughter's wedding. You
know what I mean? It's just they
>> Times have changed.
>> Yeah, they just this is
you know, they just
you just really have to stay cued in,
you know, pay attention to things like
open agenda, you know, to see that
there's uh going on locally that people
need to respond to in real time.
>> Know who your county council rep is and
your city council rep if you're in the
city of Salisbury or any other
municipality for that matter because a
lot of those folks are a conduit of
communication.
>> Yeah.
>> And uh I can tell you on the east side
there's lots of us who who watch
environmental issues that come through,
uh business issues that come through,
and it's a network of communication. So,
this is this is going to start to put
some of that to the test and and you're
right, times have definitely changed,
Michael. So, thank you both for your
time and attention on this.
We will follow up with this as
the the city the state of the city
meeting happens and the planning uh
commission happens. So, we will keep
everybody abreast of what we're hearing,
so.
Thanks for watching this episode of Open
Agenda on PAC 14. We'll be back later
this week with another new episode.
>> We think Mark Carroll is the best editor
ever.
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