You're watching Open Agenda. Here's our
host, Joe White.
>> Welcome to Open Agenda. I'm your host,
Joe White. In the studio with me today
is Mr. Michael Langford from Salsbury.
Thank you.
>> Thanks for having me.
>> Dr. Joe Vanosa from Salsbury. Thanks for
coming out.
>> Thank you. Nice jacket.
>> So, uh, we have a great opportunity
today to, uh, bring in Dr. Micah Staler,
the superintendent of Wakamaku County
Public Schools. uh really obviously want
to ask him about what his role is, but
with this situation with the county
executive really inserting herself with
personnel matters a few weeks ago, uh
want to see just what that process is.
Uh no, no opinion about what should be
done about the teacher who put out the
really distasteful meme over the Charlie
Kirk uh death, but
>> but just ask him about due process
because I think we, you know, in
America, we all deserve that. But also I
want to ask him, you know, what
challenges does he see the school have?
>> Yeah.
>> And what what advantages are they
starting to build? I mean, he's, you
know, he's had a few years and and is he
building some momentum and how does he
feel about it?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Interested in hearing what he has to
say.
>> Yeah. Michael, would you stick around?
I'd like to have him on and then have
you come back and we'll chat about
exactly what he said and and see how you
feel about it.
>> Absolutely. Love to.
>> So, when we come back, we're going to
bring on Dr. Micah Staer and we're going
to ask him about his role as
superintendent of Wakamaku County Public
Schools. So stay with us. We'll be right
back.
Welcome back to Open Agenda. In the
studio with us now is Dr. Micah Staer
from Wakcom County Public Schools.
Thanks for coming out.
>> Thank you. Thanks for having me.
>> Dr. Joe, thanks for sticking around.
>> Thank you. So, uh, I wanted to get a
feel for your role and and there's a lot
of folks who know who you are, or at
least they think they know what you do,
but I want to ask you, what exactly is
your role with the Wakamaku County
Public Schools?
>> Absolutely. So, the Wakamaku County
Board of Education has two employees.
One's a clerical assistant and the other
is myself. Okay. Uh so uh in my role as
superintendent of schools, I'm
responsible for the 2500 employees that
we have. We're the third largest
employer in Wcomaku County.
>> Okay.
>> Uh we also have 30 schools and programs.
Uh 24 schools and then six different
programs that we do that would go from
our alternative choices academy to
evening high school, our newcomer center
and our early learning center as well.
And from there also um supervising all
of the the students uh and we have
15,600 students in our school system. So
I I work a lot with um not only the
central office staff but also the
leadership in each one of the schools,
our administrative teams, our principles
and and going from there. Um as far as
the board of education, they have
purview obviously over my employment. Um
they also act on personnel matters as it
relates to certificated employees which
would be our teaching staff and our
administrators uh within the school
system. They hire and also can terminate
employment. I do recommendations on that
to the board of education and then also
they certainly act on the budget that uh
my staff and I prepare each year and
then we put that budget forward to them
for approval as a recommendation
each year as well. uh and along with
that obviously school construction would
fall under those purviews as well. Then
uh the board of education also acts on
policies. So they would um under our
recommendation and development they
would approve policies that we then as
uh our in our roles would go ahead and
implement within our school system uh
either through regulations and
procedures or also obviously within our
day-to-day uh operations within the
school system. And then finally the
board of education um acts on curriculum
uh as far as what is being taught within
the schools. we we would recommend uh
curriculum. A lot of that flows down
also from uh the state uh in the form of
the expectations that they have uh for
each one of the content areas that we
teach as well in the schools.
>> So I see you come in about once a
quarter to the Wakcom County Council.
You have a a work session with them.
What is the purpose of having that work
session with them? So, uh, when it comes
to budget development, about 20% of our
overall budget for the school system
comes from the local government.
>> Okay.
>> Uh, and we also have the bulk of our
funding that comes from the state here
in Maryland. Each state's a little bit
different, but in Maryland about um, uh,
70% or so comes from the state. And then
a smaller much smaller percentage comes
from the federal government in the form
of mostly grants and our title funding
uh title 4, title one, title two. Uh so
when it comes to working with the county
government, we work pretty closely with
the county executive and the county
council because they are um you know one
of our funders uh for the school system.
So, we want to make sure that they know
exactly uh the things that we're doing
in our school system, what our needs
are, how things are going, uh and where
their money is going because we think
that's important to maintain that
communication with both of them.
>> Does the county executive or the county
council, do they have any say in your p
personnel matters when it comes to the
board of education?
>> No. Um they wouldn't uh have uh say in
that per se. As far as our personnel
matters go, as I said, um I would when
it comes to hiring or terminating an
employee, I make recommendations if
they're certificated. Uh and remember
that we have a large uh group um with
our facility folks, our food service
folks, you know, transportation and
other things where they may not be
certificated employees, but uh when it
comes to 1,400 teachers, 100 plus
administrators, they're all certificated
in the state of Maryland to do the jobs
and roles that they do within the school
system.
>> So I would recommend for their hire or
necessarily maybe their termination to
the board of education. But when it
comes to certificated employees as well,
um because of their bargaining
agreements that they have uh here in the
state of Maryland and also obviously
through our school system, uh they have
appeal rights
>> which is pretty specific and outlined in
Komar is exactly what that quasi
judicial system is as it relates to um
any actions that I may recommend to the
board to take for certificated
employees. So there still is a due
process whether
>> there is very much so a very prescribed
due process that we have to follow um as
is outlined um because it goes through
that that process. I'm not even in in
matters
that I may recommend to the board until
they take action. I I may not uh be able
to really discuss uh many of the
personnel matters um that are before the
board because of the appeal rights
depending on which avenue they take.
They may appeal it to the board of
education or also certificated employees
can appeal it uh in um what we call
arbitration. Uh so they have two
different avenues that they could go
relating to appeals uh for actions that
I may recommend to the board
>> to take on their employment. So it's a
it's a very prescribed process and
something that certainly uh is grounded
in law and something that we have to uh
protect very carefully because uh we do
not want to mess up any one of those
steps within that process. So through
that process, you know, a debate through
social media, talking about personnel
matters, good or bad, is not something
that is part of that process at any
time.
>> It's certainly not something that is a
part of my process that I that I can do.
Um, you know, obviously um when there's
a personnel matter, I have to um act
almost as I said that quasi judicial uh
process. I have to act uh as a a neutral
person that I'm acting on. What is in
front of me? You know, what is the
evidence? Uh what are the you know the
reasons for terminating a certificated
employee or suspending a certificate
employee uh within Maryland? And I have
to follow what those definitions are for
each one of those reasons very
carefully. It's not something I can
certainly comment on out in the public
or anything like that um during that
process. And yet the irony being the
burden would probably tend to fall on
you as the symbol of the school system
regardless because at the end of the day
because you have such a big
responsibility, the superintendent is, I
guess, going to inevitably field a lot
of those public uh either perceptions or
inquiries or questions.
>> Oh, absolutely. That's my role as the
superintendent of schools. I lead the
school system and that's something I
signed up for and love doing and enjoy
doing. But that's a part of that
process, right? is not being able to
speak to certain matters but certainly
carrying the responsibility for those
matters.
>> Well, what concerns do you have? I mean,
you know, what what do you think are
some of the challenges when you look at
the three and fiveyear plan for the
Wcomer County Public Schools? What what
are you actually concerned about?
>> Well, I think obviously we always say it
and we do live it each and every day.
Um, school safety is first and foremost
our priority in the school system each
and every day. So as um things change
out in the nation and around the world,
we have to respond to that uh to make
sure that we maintain um a positive
school climate, safe learning
environments for our staff to teach in
and for our students to learn in each
day. So, we're always working on um
school safety and what are the next
steps that we can take as a school
system to ensure that safety, whether it
be additional school resource officers
in our school, updating cameras, um you
know, we have a a buzzer system in each
of our schools in the entrances of our
schools. We have security film, you
know, that we place on the the lower uh
front entrances to our school windows
and and all of that. certainly looking
at weapon detection systems. Um, and
that's across the nation, right? We're
seeing it in school systems across the
nation. We we've seen it in our airports
for a long time, our court systems for a
long time. And those are things and
steps that we need to take as we move
forward. I think something else um that
maybe the community may not think about
all of the time would be special
education resources. down here on the
lower eastern shore really is a mental
and behavioral health desert. Uh and um
you know many years ago for those that
were in the community, if you think
about it, you know, we had the Holly
Center, we had Maple Shade, uh we had
Eastern Shore Psychological, all of
those entities are really gone now for
adolescent youth. Um, so we are still as
the education system, we're still
educating every single child in the
community. So we've taken on those
responsibilities um for a long time now.
>> Yeah. I'm sorry to jump in, but I I
think you're hitting on something that I
think the public often
>> uh
>> maybe doesn't always get to see is that
the schools are always seeming to do
more with less in regards to their
social responsibility because
>> absolutely
>> when you factor in
>> obviously the national trends on you
know things like violence and safety you
have to respond that but then if you've
got and and correct me if I'm wrong but
about 2third of our students enrolled in
the public schools live below the
poverty line.
>> That's correct. 65%.
>> Yeah.
>> So 65% of our student population are
coming from families that live below the
federal poverty line. Um a little over
2,000 students now out of our 15,600
students are speaking English as a
second language. So they're learning the
English language. That has increased
drastically. So when we ask for, you
know, budget increases and we put that
need out there to our local government,
to our community, uh what we're really
asking for is more help. And in a school
system, the vast majority, probably
about 80% of our budget go towards the
salary and benefits of our staff. So,
when we're asking for budget increases,
we're really asking for more staff to be
able to meet the needs that we're seeing
in our schools and in our classrooms,
whether they may be with students with
disabilities, English language learners,
um students of poverty, whatever it may
be. you know, it takes um more more
bodies, more help, more staffing than
just that that um that traditional
teacher in our classrooms, that one
teacher model in a classroom to be able
to educate the kinds of needs that we're
seeing within our school system.
>> So, I want to talk a little bit about
this proposal to put in the metal
detectors. It's it's proposed to be a
little over $6 million.
>> You talked about the national trends.
obviously seems to be uh something that
we would want to address before we have
a we make the news so to speak.
>> Absolutely.
>> Uh what would it involve and and what
confidence level do you have that this
this may happen?
>> I think u when you look at school safety
uh especially the measures that you take
to to continue to progress in that area
really looking at a layered approach.
So, as I said before, you have that
those school resource officers. Um, we
have 12 in our school system now, one in
each one of our secondary schools and
our choices academy. We also have two
that are assigned specifically just for
elementary schools that uh respond to
the needs that are there. Uh, we also of
course have the the security cameras as
another layer. We have campus patrol
that our staff um that are in, you know,
instructional assistants, but they're
trained. Uh we have campus security
managers. They're checking exterior
doors. They're looking at our cameras.
They're uh patrolling the the hallways
uh and the restrooms and just checking
to make sure that everything is safe and
secure in those areas, especially in our
secondary schools. Um as I mentioned, we
have the security film. So weapons
detection would be that next layered
approach. Um and certainly, you know,
we've had issues that we've responded to
in our elementary, middle, and high
grade levels in recent years. And um our
recommendation is that we go ahead and
implement these systems in each one of
our schools
>> uh to provide that next layer of
security. um you know that that
obviously it's a physical deterrent to
make sure that there are no weapons um
that are being brought into the schools
but also that psychological safety uh
that we know is important for our
students and our staff as well.
>> So they know when they get there they're
there to learn not there to be worried
about.
>> That's exactly right. Um, I want to ask
you too, what what role do you think uh
athletics and extracurricular activities
have with with the student success
particularly when they get into middle
school and high school?
>> Well, I think it's it's a key. You know,
when I first um started as the
superintendent, obviously did a needs
assessment, really talked with our our
students, our staff, the community
members, looking to see um what were
some of the concerns that we had, what
were we doing well that we could expand
on and just to provide that direction as
we move forward um you know, under my
leadership. And that was important to
me. And I think one thing that kept
coming out um through those surveys and
and through those uh community
engagements uh where I was getting that
feedback was just connection to school.
How important it is for students to feel
connected to school. Um both of you may
or may not have gone to school, jumped
out of bed, ran to see school or got on
the bus to go to school each day uh to
to go into that geometry class or to go
into that English class. It could have
been band. It could have been an
after-school program. It could have been
sports um that really connected you to
the school and got you excited about
learning.
>> Something to anchor the learning.
>> That's correct. That's correct. So, uh
when we looked at our data, we really
saw that um you know, students were
doing pretty well in our early grade
levels and making progress. And even on
the back end, students were doing well
once they got into high school, maybe
got connected through CTE or through
sports or fine arts in some way. Um, but
it was that that middle that those
middle grade level hard time hard time
for our students, whether it's
discipline, attendance, grades. We saw
each one of those data points take a a
nose dive about the time of fifth grade
through 9th grade. So, we're like, what
can we do to really anchor our students
uh in our schools, connect them more to
the schools so that we're going to see
the achievement in the classrooms, which
is what we that's our priority, right?
That's what we want to see. But what can
we do to really anchor those students in
the whole um climate of the school to
help improve what they're learning in
the classroom and how they're achieving
in the classroom? And that's where that
idea came about with middle school
sports. We trying to find out what
pockets were working in high school and
then push that down into those middle
grades. And that's, you know, we've been
expanding middle schoolmies, which is a
uh expanding fine arts and CTE type
programming in our middle schools, and
sports came with that, expanding those
middle school sports. Are you seeing
some early positive results because it's
you're a little over a year in, correct?
>> That's right. Uh I was just uh WCOM
County Education Foundation just had
their charity golf tournament and uh I
know they raised a little over $15,000
towards it which was amazing. We had uh
Councilman uh Dave Andis and Bonnie
Annis and talked to Michelle Wright.
>> U the the the going to Wcomako County
Public Schools myself, it is you kind of
get into middle school and there's
really a little less of a purpose and
I'm I'm I'm glad to see that they're
starting to get those offerings. So,
>> and that's at the same time that you're
going through those awkward ages in your
own life, you know, where you need it
more than ever to really really capture
the interests of our students. So, we've
been making a really concerted effort to
do that.
>> Great. Well, Dr. Staer, I really
appreciate you taking the time to come
in here. Uh, want you to know anytime
that there's an update,
>> something positive that you want to
share, something that you some concern
that you want to get out there, uh, we
hope you would come back and and sit
with us.
>> I'd be happy to. Thank you. Much
appreciated.
>> And can we put a plug in for Beaver Run
Elementary School? Yeah. I mean, I I I
think we both can agree that that's
pretty good elementary school.
>> Absolutely. Absolutely. We've done well,
haven't we?
>> I think we've turned out okay despite
our efforts, right?
>> That great foundation.
>> Well, thanks for watching this segment
of Open Agenda. We'll be right back.
>> Welcome back to Open Agenda. Mr. Michael
Langford, thanks for joining us back.
>> Thanks for having me.
>> Dr. Venosa, thanks for sticking around.
>> Always.
>> So, was it really interesting to get a
chance to speak with Dr. Staer?
>> Yes.
>> Um, even some of what I thought he might
say was different than what he did talk
about. And one point he made after we
were done speaking with him on camera
was we we asked him about the the cost
of the the metal detectors and it is 6.3
million, but only about 2 million of
that is for the actual expense of the
metal detectors. about four million is
to to have all the staff in place. As he
said, he has to get about 1500 students
at certain high schools through in 15
minutes. It's
>> like operating a airport essentially
every morning.
>> It would be it would be like trying to
load what three full or no five full
airplanes. Yeah. And and I think too
once they're through, you want the
students to be able to focus on learning
and not worried about their own safety,
right?
>> Yeah.
>> I think what uh
>> what he brought to I felt like he gave
us a good overview. you know, you asked
some very basic questions of him and his
role as superintendent. And I think it
is like a lot of times we forget public
forward facing because of whatever gets
in the media, right? Whatever about the
schools that is a concern to the public.
>> Um, by the time that comes up, that's
not necessarily what he's spending most
of his time doing. You know what I mean?
That's not his necessarily his role.
>> So, let's talk about the media, but more
importantly, the social media.
>> Okay. So, we saw about 3 weeks ago our
county executive completely blow up over
a really terrible, illtimed meme that
one teacher at a at a middle school put
out about the the death of Charlie Kirk.
Um, I I don't I've not heard anybody who
who's actually come back in defense and
said that it was good or funny or
appropriate,
>> but he has to deal with the personnel
matters and and really the board does
and and now the county executive has
weighed in in the most unprofessional
way, but I feel like he he handled it in
a very stoic way, right?
>> I think stoic's a great word. um you
know it's a job where you you have to be
many things to many different people and
in the end you know you have to mitigate
things that are always beyond your
control and I've never seen a situation
where you know the school board has to
also deal not just with like childish
parents excuse me childish students or
parents that might not know what's going
on but now you're dealing with childish
politicians.
>> Well she is also a parent of a student
too so she's kind of one of those as
well. So all three. Yeah, just a lot
wrapped into one.
>> A a lot is in is the right word.
>> Yeah, it does sound like we're we do
benefit that he's in an independent of
of her and and I think we're also
beneficial that our sheriff is and our
state's attorney are
>> because I mean we've really seen her
just be become very unstable very quick.
>> It would be quite frightening I think in
the physical sense of our students. God
forbid if the executive actually had
authority over the schools like she
wants. Yeah,
>> that would be I think a recipe for the
physical danger of some of our students.
>> So, Michael, you you after having a
chance to to to listen to what Dr. Staer
had to say, if you were a student or you
had children in the school program, do
you feel like some of the the
initiatives that are being put out there
are the are the most important ones or
do you feel like there's still something
lacking that we should be looking at?
>> Um, I mean, I feel feel overall good
with how they're responding. I think um
Dr. Dr. Stford made the point that like
80% of the budget goes to pay. That's I
I often think about these things where I
don't have children, right? I'm thinking
about the aspect of managing
liabilities, risks, and the financials.
That's, you know, with the school. Um I
do think it, you know, I always want to
see investment in the schools. I really
believe in education, you know. Um, so I
always feel, you know, uh, when we talk
the revenue cap is often one of the
things I think in the county that is why
the school budget isn't there isn't more
put forward into the school budget, you
know. Um,
>> don't you think that's being used as a
scapegoat though?
>> I I think
potentially it's it's like even if it's
a scapegoat, it's like they still they I
guess to your point, they still just
don't want to fund the schools fully.
Maybe.
>> Yeah. I'm going to be honest with you. I
think that's more the the case.
>> Well, that's the thing. I I think the
irony is that the education issue is a
red herring as far as the revenue cap
debate because we are allowed to fund
the educational budget irrespective of
the revenue cap. We can bust it for that
reason.
>> Correct. And and in putting aside the
revenue cap debate, I would go back to
the fact that I think the council over
the last 20 years has been in my opinion
deeply irresponsible with not investing
in public education. Well, I think when
they when you go back and look at where
they were from the recession 2008 is
weird really. Yeah.
>> I mean, there was furlows. They had to
they had to take a huge step back.
>> I would think from my opinion, maybe we
haven't caught up as fast as we should
have. Now, we did we saw them take in in
a positive step.
>> It's changed recently, I think. Yeah.
>> But but using the the tax cap, the
property tax cap as just a scapegoat.
I'm not saying don't don't argue it. I'm
just saying
>> the when you look at the income tax
revenue which is 65% of our total
budget, it has gone up more than 10% a
year the last three or four years. If we
can't survive off of that large of an
increase year in year out
>> than the revenue cap issue
>> then the revenue cap you're talking 2
or3 million that's actually keeping
money in people's pockets. M
>> we're already seeing this income, this
piggyback tax come back in in, you know,
much much higher rates. If we're going
to try to outspend it, then when we hit
the next recession, we're going to be in
a whole lot of trouble.
>> And that's that's when those cuts to
education could be even more brutal than
what they were. I think that's the hard
thing that like you know if you're being
fair to the representatives whoever it
is and what even if your you know
principles align or don't align um with
how they're spending money it's hard to
predict and control you know you're the
the aspects of markets and how they
impact us so 08 or like the pandemic so
then a lot of times by the time that we
you know hit a slowdown period like you
said we can't invest as much money so
then by the time that we're picking up
even and if like we're only given you
know 2 3% % increase and then we're
like, "Oh, well, we gave four or 5%, you
know, more than last year." Well, you
were already behind. And so, I think
that one of the issues with the schools
is it seems like I've seen a number of
Dr. Staler's presentations now. It seems
like when he brings out graphs and shows
like data on, you know, what
expenditures are, where what that is
specifically paying for, what is
mandated by the state, and then what
he's given, and then what payroll cost.
as somebody who's worked as an
accountant, almost every business. And
the only business that I think I've
worked for where payroll wasn't the
largest expense was an airline because
the cost of that
>> the planes are so expensive.
>> But most most businesses it is. And it's
also the area that for most businesses
>> it can it's the thing that makes you
sink or swim.
>> I mean it it it really is where where
the rubber meets the road.
>> And again, it goes both ways, right?
Because as Dr. Christopher said you have
I believe the school excuse me the
public school system is the third
largest employer in the county for this
>> that's what he said
>> what he said and then you factor in of
course the other end of it as to what
are we training we're helping these kids
get ready for that
>> I was glad to see and and I and I've
been proud to be a part of like they're
they're raising money for middle school
sports because I have a middle schooler
at home
>> Yeah
>> and there are days where I think she
would rather just not even go to school
but if she has a soccer game or a
lacrosse game Yeah,
>> that's a huge motivating factor for her
to go
>> and give it everything she has like
she's taught on the soccer field or
lacrosse field.
>> Well, you you you bring up a good point
that we all kind of come at it with
education in in a personal way whether
we have a kid or don't. We all went to
school.
>> So, we're all kind of influenced in
different ways. And one of the things I
kind of wish I I kind of asked him even
though we didn't really time for it is
as a child of a special needs kid who we
now homeschool. You know, one of the
reasons we did it is is because we felt
it was appropriate to take him out of
school because as he even said, we
didn't really have the resources to
provide the kind of experience that
would be most beneficial to him.
>> Yeah. And so I think one of the things
that he's going to have a big challenge
dealing with apart from all of the
budgetary stuff is the fact that there's
so many human elements that make up this
dynamic of a public school system that
we just don't talk about. Like he
touched on a little bit. You've got I
think more than 2,000 students who are
English language learners. You've got
special ed. You've got uh home dynamics.
interesting that I think when we use the
term community schools, a lot of people
use it in very vanilla corporate PR
jargon, but when you really think about
it, those schools are the community.
Because if you got somebody who's going
to somebody's birth to help with a child
or you're going to see them in your
neighborhood or you're going to see them
chaperon at dance or work at a sports
event or umpire your baseball game, you
know,
that stuff is integral to a whole
person's development both ways. as the
adult or the staff or the teacher and
the and the student. And those are
things that are always happening, but we
don't think of them.
>> Yeah.
>> Especially when there's a negative
social media comment. I
>> I do think one advantage he has is is
and we were joking about it when he was
on the segment. I mean, he did go to
school here uh and and he chose to come
back and you know, I'm somebody who went
to school here and and and and had to
leave for a little while for career
opportunities, but chose to come back.
And it's great to have that perspective,
but that desire to want to make your own
town better.
>> And one of the things we always try, or
at least I try to advocate for as a
professor at SU, is keeping those
teacher ed students, especially the
secondary ones that are history majors,
too,
>> is try to keep them open to the idea of
staying here. Whether they come here as
students initially to stay or whether
they're from here and they want to stay,
the importance of keeping good quality
teachers and staff in the community is
such a need right now.
>> Well, thank you both. appreciate you
taking the time to talk about this.
Thanks for watching this episode of Open
Agenda. We'll be back later this week
with another new episode.
At least I'm smiling like Mike said.
