You're watching Open Agenda. Here's your
host, Mike Goldberg.
Welcome to Open Agenda. I'm your host,
Mike Goldberg. I'm joined today by Jim
Atkins of Mardella Springs and Joe White
from Parsonsburg. We have a really big
show coming up uh today um in regard to
the Wakcomo County Nursing Home. You've
probably heard at this point that
there's been some issues that have come
to light and the executive and the
county council are hopefully trying to
seek some adequate solutions uh to this
very uh important institution that
serves the elderly in Wcomako County.
So, we're going to talk about what
happened at the at the August 18th uh
county council meeting and we're going
to talk more about what will be coming
up in September in regard to the nursing
home as we all seek solutions. So, thank
you for tuning in. Stand by. We'll be
right back. You're watching Open Agenda.
Welcome back to Open Agenda. Yeah. At
yesterday's uh council meeting, the
August 18th council meeting, the county
council introduced emergency legislation
to make the nursing home a department
with uh requiring council confirmation
of the nursing home director and giving
the council the ability to fire the
director by a majority vote, a 5 to2 uh
vote. Um Bob Benson, the county
council's attorney, uh explained uh the
u the nuts and bolts of this uh
yesterday. Next item is uh emergency
legislative bill number 2026-11.
An emergency act to add chapter 49 of
the Wcomo County code titled nursing
home to establish rules and regulations
on the operation of Wamco County Nursing
Home, the appointment of administrator
for nursing home and the establishment
of a nursing home commission and aid in
maintaining good government health and
welfare of the county. Legislative bill
number 2026-11
is being introduced as emergency action
pursuant to chapter 311G
which authorized the county council to
declare an action to be an emergency
measure affecting public health, safety
or welfare in a matter which is suddenly
and unexpectedly arisen which requires
immediate action in the public interest.
Since the enactment of the legislative
bill chapter 5, Bill five in 1972,
there does not appear to be any
additional legislative action that has
ever taken place with regard to the
nursing home. We know that the nursing
home is a wholly owned entity of Wakam
County with an administrative director,
but there is no guidance or law that
provides oversight for the operation of
the 102 bed nursing home operated by the
county. They authorizes the county
executive to appoint the administrator
with the approval of the county council.
Uh the legislation sets forth
responsibilities for the nursing home
administrator including that the
administrator shall meet with the county
council at least quarterly to report on
the operation and condition of the home.
The emergency legislation creates a
nursing home commission to advise the
county executive and the county council
on the operation of nursing home. The
commission will be made up of various
professionals and interested persons
will meet at least monthly at the
nursing home. The nursing home
administrator is mandated to cooperate
and meet with the commission. The
commission is mandated to report to the
county executive and the county council
at least once a year on the condition of
the nursing home. The bill also mandates
that a personnel system for the nursing
home shall be recommended by the county
executive established by the county
council. To enact this bill on an
emergency basis, the council must
determine that a sudden and unexpected
emergency has arisen that affects the
public safety and welfare and must enact
the bill by an affirmative vote of at
least five members.
>> Um Joe, can you summarize that for us?
>> Well, I mean, Bob basically talked about
how vague the the charter is when it
comes to the nursing home. And even you
know some of the research some of our
team has done has found some various
degrees of of you know sometimes the the
the director gets confirmed back in 2011
and even 2015 sometimes they don't. And
I think one thing that Bob did is he
went back I mean Laura Hurley had had
dug out the original 1972 resolution
that set the nursing home up under the
county purview. Back then we had a
councilmatic form of government and
since we've moved to an executive form
there just hasn't been as many updates.
I mean no one's touched this this
department in 50 years legally on on the
issue of whether it's a public or
whether it's an emergency or not. I mean
the issue didn't arise
prior to August 1st. I don't think
anybody on the council at least I don't
believe had any concerns and there
weren't any generally recognized
concerns with regard to the nursing home
since August 1st. My understanding is
that
hundreds if not thousands of concerns
have been raised to individual council
members about it. Um there was a closed
work session. Um to be blunt about it,
the public comments that occurred after
the closed work session seem to be
directly opposite to what was said in
the closed work session. Um
the concern that I personally have uh is
that after we started looking at this
uh and Miss Hurley found the 1972
resolution where the it was purchased
the there basically is nothing codified
either in code or in the charter with
regard to the the nursing home.
With respect, it appears to me that the
nursing home has just existed for 50
years. The good news is nothing bad's
happened in 50 years, but nothing, it's
not codified anywhere. There is nothing
in the county charter and there's
nothing in the county code about the
operation of the nursing home. Um, and
to me the the emergency is that there's
nothing in the county charter or in the
county code about how the nursing home
is supposed to be over overseen, who
operates it, who has who has oversight
over it. And that's just frankly been
discovered since these concerns were
raised. Secondly, the county the law
department has termed the nursing home
to be a county agency. Uh, I asked the
county the law department where they get
that definition because I'm not aware of
anything in the county code or charter
that defines what an agency is.
But nonetheless, assuming that they're
correct, that it's an agency, they're
suggesting that the provision in the in
the emergency legislation that gives the
council the authority to remove by uh a
vote of five members, the administrator
would be in violation of section 413 of
the charter. My only point on that is
that if section 413 applies when the
county executive hired the
administrator,
uh, she violated chapter 413 because
under chapter 413, if she hired an
agency head, that agency head had to be
submitted for approval to the county
council and it w and she wasn't
submitted to the county council. I don't
know whether the nursing home is an
agency of the county. If it is, the
existing the the the person in charge of
the nursing home was not hired in accord
with the county charter. Uh therefore,
she's not ille not legally in office. If
it's not an agency, then there's nothing
in the law that says how the
administrator supposed to be hired and
fired. And this establishes a process
that that that for that to occur. It
puts in place at least some mechanism
that has been missing for 50 years uh as
to what the nursing home is and what its
relationship to Wcomako County is. And
uh I thought Bob did a nice job of
saying, "Hey, look, we're either doing
it wrong this way or we're doing it
wrong that way." And yes, they're using
emergency legislation, but ultimately I
think they're just trying to get course
correct and and and have it come under a
similar purview as the rest of the
departments.
>> Yeah, of course. uh when the county
acquired the nursing home, as you
mentioned, we were under u a
councilmanic form of government and the
charter and ordinances simply haven't
evolved to cover this situation. So,
there's a a great deal of ambiguity that
we really need to get worked out, hence
the emergency legislation. Um, John
Cannon had a very thorough explanation
yesterday of why this legislation has
been put forth.
>> I really felt, Mr. Wilbur, in reference
to um the emergency legislation, um I
know it wasn't that long ago that we uh
passed legislation in reference to title
health and that was uh done as emergency
legislation. And from my perspective,
there's 10 tfold more reasons to make
this emergency legislation than there
ever was to have made that emergency
legislation.
>> But we recognize the importance of it.
So that's how we passed it. But I think
there's even greater importance in
trying to make sure we get this through
as quickly as possible and establish the
parameters that are necessary to try to
write the ship. We're worried about I
mean, it's being proclaimed that there's
concerns about the legal challenges we
might get due to the fact this is
emergency legislation. I agree 100% what
Councilman Shields said. I'd be much
more concerned about the legal exposure
we have right now today and what could
possibly occur within the next month or
two months. Should we have an
unfortunate set of circumstances,
somebody passes away in this nursing
home within the next 3 weeks, we're
already exposed as a county. I think we
need to take measures to show that we're
being proactive to try to address these
concerns that have been brought to our
attention. Oh, I I think John and and
like Joe said, Bob Benson really uh
really hit the nail on the head with it.
This facility basically has I don't want
to say been ignored, but nobody's looked
at it in 50 years because it hasn't been
a problem. There's been no problems out
there. uh you've got a nursing home that
is uh owned by the county, but the uh
the employees are not county employees
that work at the nursing home. Uh who's
in charge? Who covers the nursing home?
Because as Joe stated, it was a
councilmatic
event in 72. There's been nothing to
address who's in charge of a nursing
home, what steps need to be taken, and
the argument yesterday about making it
an emergency legislation versus just
legislation is strictly to get this
handled in a timely manner. The amount
of time it would take regular
legislation would be, you know, probably
4 months longer than emergency
legislation. I think because of the
liability side point. I mean,
>> exactly. Because they've been made aware
that there are issues, at least in some
people's mind. I mean, that's one thing.
We don't we don't 100% know
>> everything that's happened. Uh we know
there's different sides of the story,
and rarely is either one of those,
right? But from a liability standpoint,
if there's going to be a a file claimed
uh against the county, then the county
council wants this oversight. And if
they just sit there and ignore it, the
county is going to have a lot of
liability. So, they want to get it under
control, get all the regulations in
there to protect the county.
>> There actually has been a problem in the
past, though. We've come to find out
back in um 2019,
there were some issues. I don't know
specifically what those issues were, but
an RFP was actually issued, a request
for proposals for management services.
Um, to the best of my knowledge, that
was uh that RFP was ultimately abandoned
because they were able to take
internally the the necessary corrective
measures and and get uh get the nursing
home back on track.
>> Look, we we heard it in in the public
comments two weeks ago on August 4th
that there was an attempt by Bob Culver
and which would have been that same
timeline to actually sell the nursing
home. And uh look, I you know, I think
that that's pretty speculative because
there's not been an RFP out. Um I think
that's a lot of conjecture and and I
think that's the one thing I want to
caution people on is okay, let's let's
stick to what the facts are and and see
and and and do the right thing as if we
with based off what we know.
>> Now, we do have a public hearing uh
coming up and a second reading of the
bill on September 15th. Um, hope a lot
of people show up for that. Um, what do
you think's going to happen then?
>> Look, I I've heard from people who who
feel like the nursing home does not have
a problem. And I have not been there
myself to know. Um, this will give them
a chance to come and and explain that
side of it. But we most certainly heard
from dozens of people about their
experiences and they and they were not
positive. So, this would be a a good
chance for the public to say, "Hey,
look, how do you want it to go forward?"
Like, "How do you want this to work?"
And make sure that you you make your
voice heard at that at that uh public
hearing on September 15th. It's a it's a
daytime meeting. It's a 10 a.m. meeting.
>> Uh if this is important to you, make
arrangements to be there.
>> One of the the good things about the
legislation is they are proposing a
commission, an advisory commission of
seven members. And the uh seven members,
I can't quote all seven of them now, but
they they involve legal uh financial,
medical people who have experience that
can make recommendations and and that
was one of the things addressed
yesterday. And I think that commission
would would be very well suited to make
recommendations
because you're dealing with people who
know the law, who know accounting, who
[clears throat] know financing, who know
HR, who knows,
>> they know healthare.
>> Yeah. Healthcare. And and they're coming
in and advising the council or the
executive who does not have that
experience. Well, we're going to move on
and come back in just a minute with with
our next segment and we're going to
explore the issue of the Wcomo County
Nursing Home a little bit further. Stick
with us. We'll be right back. You're
watching Open Agenda.
Welcome back to Open Agenda. Thanks for
sticking with us. We're going to
continue our discussion about the uh
recent problems at the Wakamako County
Nursing Home. Um, going into the second
reading of the emergency legislation
that's uh going to be coming up on the
15th,
what do you think the council should
consider, Jim?
>> I'm fine with what they have considered
now. Uh, you know, it's just it amazes
me
that two weeks ago this issue was
brought to the attention of the council.
Uh the executive stated that when asked
why she wasn't in the room, she stated
that the room was full and that she
wanted to not take up a seat that
someone from the general public could
have. Okay. Well, she used to have a
seat behind the council table, which
wouldn't have taken any any seat from
the public, so she could have been there
if she wanted to. Uh yesterday uh during
this reading of the of the emergency
legislation, there were probably 20
seats available in the room. Uh she
chose not to come in there and and sit
there.
We have a problem at the nursing home.
We have the public and the employees
stating one thing and the council is
trying to address the concerns of the of
the public and the employees. The
executive is saying something totally
different.
But in two council meetings,
she has chosen not to come into the
council and address the problem and try
to come up with a solution. It's just
basically whatever the council does,
she's going to come in there and fight
it. There is no coordination to fix this
problem. It's you're wrong, I'm right.
>> Good morning, President Cannon and
members of the county council, Julie
Gerardano, County Executive. Um, I'm
asking you when the time comes to table
that emergency legislation concerning
the Wakcomo Nursing Home, especially
because of the very concerning
misinformation that was talked about.
So, just a couple of clarifications.
Miss Sheney, county tax dollars do not
pay their salaries.
>> I didn't say that. I said to pay yours.
>> Okay. Well, they're not used for
employees. So, we use Medicare,
Medicaid, and private pay. Also, it was
stated that I violated the charter by
not bringing Tina in front of you. You
all saw Tina after she was hired by me.
We did a close session and at no point
in time was it brought up that there
needed to be a confirmation. And the
previous director was not confirmed by
this council either. I would have
brought her in front of you and you
would have confirmed her. And you want
to know why? Because she's licensed and
she came highly recommended by the last
director. Also, I find it kind of crazy
that you all admit you don't know how it
works and you just passed legislation on
it. It's insane to me.
I have serious concerns that this
legislation crosses the line established
by our charter by inserting the
legislative branch once again into
personnel matters that belong within the
executive branch.
In fact, this again, this council met
the administrator and had no concerns at
that point in time. You've met her. The
other thing that's particularly
disheartening is that this legislation
appears to be driven largely by hearsay
complaints from disgruntled employees
and members of the public who simply
don't have all the facts that happened
in history. It's called the Salem witch
trials and we see how that turned out.
I'm so glad this is amusing to you all.
This is a serious situation.
>> Are you agreeing?
>> Absolutely. Anyway, again, I find it
crazy that people are calling you all
for complaints when there is a poster
right in there for a state state
budsman. Her name is Cheryl Sinkbell to
file a complaint. There's posters all
over the walls of the nursing home for
complaints. And you want to know why I
know that? Because I've been there. And
what's very frustrating, not one of you,
you passed legislation. All seven of you
passed legislation and you haven't even
walked in the nursing home.
>> I know.
>> You have not been in the nursing home
with the new director since April and
you just passed legislation to
ultimately affect it.
>> You don't know that.
>> I do know that you have not been there
with her.
>> Anyway, it doesn't matter. You should go
and meet with her, tour the facility,
speak with her about the operations, and
hear her side before pursuing this
emergency legislation.
You're basing it off of what people said
here rather than actually going and
seeing. I appreciate Delegate Sheree
Sample Hughes. She goes there daily, so
I appreciate her letter. I thought that
her letter was great. But you all are
passing legislation and you've never
even walked the halls with the new
administrator.
It's unreal to me. Really quick, just
table this legislation. One thing I have
for you all, and I think that you all
might find this uh kind of interesting.
I have a paper for you all. This is one
thing that Tina has changed since the
last person was here. Mr. Benson, would
you pass this around for me? What I'm
showing you
is this is how our nursing home was
keeping track of vacation and sick time.
Not on a computer, not on, you know,
munice in a she on a sheet of paper like
this.
>> I'm sorry.
>> That's okay. Okay. 120 hours given, 240
hours given. But what's so concerning to
me is not this.
What's concerning to me is the cash out.
Cash out, cash out, cash out. This
person was using their vacation time as
their own personal piggy bank to write
tax-free checks to themselves.
This is the type of stuff that Tina has
stopped.
This is concerning and these are the
things that she's trying to change. So
again, before jumping the gun and
listening to everything else, sit with
her, go there, talk to the residents.
And that's what I'm asking of you. And I
appreciate that you go out there, Miss
Sheney, and you talk to the residents.
I'm asking the six of you go through the
doors of the facility with the new
director before you make that
legislation.
>> So, my concern was bringing it up was
we're not in the name of transparency
cuz we want to be transparent. We aren't
working with each other. We're not
working with the administration at the
nursing home to make make craft
legislation and we're not working with
our executive department to try and
build something. We're just going
straight from a close session into
emergency legislation and we're not
giving the public an opportunity to hear
what's going on. That's what I'm saying.
>> You know, she made a statement yesterday
to the council. Well, none of you have
been out there to visit the nursing
home.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, I I don't know.
I'd like to know prior to all this
erupting, when the last time she was out
at the nursing home. Well, and they
addressed that later. They said that at
least three or four of them had been out
there.
>> No, but it's just, you know, it it's
showtime and it it's time. We're not
trying to fix the problem. The council
is with this emergency legislation to
get control over this. But
>> I think the council needs to stay
focused on
limiting the liability that they the
county could could have if there is as
much problems as the the folks who came
back on August 4th said.
>> Um again,
it's it's impossible for us to verify
everything that they said. It's hard to
believe that at least some of that or
most of that's not true or at least the
perception that is.
>> When you have more than two dozen people
give testimony, I I I don't think that
we can just ignore that
>> and and and they should not be ignored.
Uh and and and it was very thorough and
thoughtful uh comments that they were
making and and they stayed around if we
remember over a couple hours through the
whole
>> they waited for hours before they had
the opportunity to speak
>> and and and the public needs to be able
to be address have redressed with their
government and this is right now is the
only chance that most people get in our
county right is at a county council
meeting. But at the end of the day I I
don't want to see the council get
outside of their purview. Their purview
is if this should be a department and it
sounds like it should, then they should
be able to confirm the director and the
county executive should still be able to
set policy and still should be able to
make personnel changes unless there's a
5 to2 supermajority that obviously
there's something agree just going on
and then the council but they have that
ability with all department heads now.
>> Yeah. With a problem of of this nature,
I think the solution is found in a
cooperative effort between the executive
and the legislative branches. But from
where I sit, the county executive is not
interested in making a cooperative
effort as you say that she just wants to
be right. And in this case, every
indication is that she is not right. And
you know, that's that's concerning
because we're it's going to make it very
difficult to to find an adequate
solution. Well, I think I think delegate
Shri Huge yesterday,
I'm sorry, Sample Hughes said yesterday
that uh it looks like
a dismantling of the nursing home.
>> I must share with you the day that I um
spoke with the administrator of the
nursing home, my first question to her
was, is the building being sold? And now
I have since learned that the question
should have been, are you dismantling
the nursing home?
through the systems. This is a
systematic dismantling approach. When
you go from uh forcing persons out that
have been there 20, 18, 12 years, and
I've met with these employees, I'm not
talking um just to be from hearsay. This
is real. We have about 78 employees that
are are have either been forced or have
been terminated and terminated over a
phone call. It's an emergency. and for
for the county attorney to make the
statement that it's not an emergency.
None of us here today are having to be
escorted to the bathroom. None of us are
sitting here waiting for a meal tray to
be brought to them to eat.
They're waiting. And they're not just
waiting patiently. They're waiting. And
and then you have the staff that have to
do double duty to make sure they're
getting the trays out to the people,
making sure they're getting changed for
bed. When you bring in a new
administrator or director,
they're going to make changes, but you
need to go into an operation,
observe the operation, figure out what's
wrong, and then start making changes.
you just don't walk through the door and
start, you know,
>> she she came in as a wrecking ball
essentially, you know.
>> Well, but you know, and and look, I did
not like the the approach she took at
the podium. Okay. But there was one
point she made that as as a as a
business owner who's who's dealt with
recent government changes from the
federal level and the state level. She
brought up how they calculating sick
leave and paid time off. the state of
Maryland and and and we're such a
unfriendly business state has made it so
much the job of the employer to to to
document and document and document. A
lot of folks don't know that the state
of Maryland now has paid sick leave. U
this is news to a lot of people. Well,
well, Julie brought up she showed the
handwritten notes. If that's still the
way they were doing it, that does need
to be addressed. That's ar an archaic
method, no doubt.
>> But if you come into the council
chambers in the in the approach that she
had, it is going to make it more
difficult to work together with your
legislative body, not easier. So, at the
end of the day, there also could be
exposure to the county from somebody
filing an FMLA claim. And I would hate
to see that, too. An employee.
>> Yes. But you have two different issues
that I think are there with that
yesterday.
If that's the way they're doing the sick
leave, it's antiquated and it needs to
be corrected.
The second part of that statement about
that was that there was an employee
using the nursing home for their
personal piggyback back. Now you're
accusing somebody.
>> That's a big accusation.
>> That's a big accusation and you better
be able to back it up.
>> I would agree. Now, she didn't name
names. No,
>> but that is that is a pretty egregious
um accusation. Now, you know, obviously
if she has
>> actual proof, I look, I I don't I don't
want to see any of our tax dollars or
and not that the nursing home is tax
dollars, but it's still a public agency,
>> right? But it it it's just amazing to
me, and I stated this yesterday, and
I'll state it tomorrow and as many other
days as it takes.
If she's so adamant that somebody is
using that nursing home for a personal
piggy bank and she's going to have it
audited,
well, let's audit the uh
debit cards.
Let's audit the grants.
Let's audit the public works fuel. all
the things that she has fought against
as the executive when the internal
auditor has tried to do these audits,
but now she wants to go after somebody.
So, she's going to demand a forensic
audit on that operation by you selected,
isn't it?
>> You you can't have it both ways. Well,
and and that I think that's probably the
point the public should come and make on
September 15th is you use the nursing
home as an example, but this is how we
want to see our government operate. We
want to see our executive and
legislative branch work cooperatively on
issues, especially when they expose the
county to liability. And we want more
fiscal oversight particularly on a a
random and uh rolling audit system
without any obstructions from either
branch.
>> Either side.
>> Well, personally, I hope that they can
get this resolved because the Wcomo
County Nursing Home is unfortunately
probably going to be my next residence.
Maybe yours, too. So, I I I hope we have
rooms close to one another so we can
talk about this some more. Guys, I think
that's all we have time for today.
Thanks so much for being here and thank
you for for tuning in to open agenda.
