You're watching Open Agenda.
>> Hi and welcome to this episode of Open
Agenda, episode 152, I might add.
We are actually are in a part two of a
two-part segment regarding the emergency
at the Wicomico Nursing Home.
And as a continuation of that, we've
been graced by the presence of our
Councilwoman Michae Shields from
District 1. Thank you for being here,
Councilwoman Shields.
>> Thank you.
>> Appreciate it. And our old friend from
the West Side, Mr. Jim Atkins. Sir,
appreciate it.
>> And Mike, are you graced by me being
here?
>> You noticed that, huh? Yeah, we'll give
you that. I'll give you some grace.
>> [laughter]
>> Grace for the West Side.
Um so, what I'd like to do is get into
the specifics about the backstory,
Councilwoman Shields, as to how you
heard about the initial concerns
regarding the crises over at the nursing
home.
>> Phone call.
>> The phone call. And then maybe get into
sort of that narrative and and and sort
of inform the public as to how this came
about in such a major way so quickly.
So, what I'd like to do is we'll start
that discussion in the next segment. So,
would you stick around for that next
segment for us?
>> Sure.
>> Thank you. Mr. Jim, you going to hang?
>> I'm here.
>> Grace us with your presence. Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Thank you so much. Stick around and
we'll be right back with our next
segment of Open Agenda.
Hi, welcome back to Open Agenda. Um
Michae, you've been probably the most
prominent member of the County Council
that's sort of taken up this current
issue with the emergency at the Wicomico
County Nursing Home. And you know, in a
previous episode, we we dived into the
specifics of the emergency legislation
and the concerns.
But what I'd like to do is sort of get
um your testimony as to the human side
of this issue because as as you as
Delegate Shrie Sample, as you as
Councilman Merrick, Councilman Ennis,
and many others have said, this
ultimately is a human crisis. It's it's
about people.
>> Mhm.
>> And you always say that all the time.
It's about people in our community. So,
if I can ask you, how did you first
become aware from the people about
things that were going on at the nursing
home?
>> So, I got a phone call from
a
a lady that uh
her mother was in the nursing home for 2
and 1/2 years
and she was talking about the excellent
treatment her mother got and she said,
"I'm worried that something's going on
in the nursing home.
Uh
people are getting fired
and she was brought concern about the
care that the people would get. She
said, "I love that nursing home.
I love it." She said, "I I I continue to
go there and visit people and my church
goes once a month to have provide
services for the residents." And she was
very concerned about
the new administrator because no one
ever saw her.
So, when she came, she never introduced
herself to the workers.
And um
very very seldom was she there. She was
to the government building.
So, she was just concerned and she said,
"Please see what you can do." So, when I
when I found out about it,
I called um
John.
I called the same day. I called John. I
called Sheree.
I even called Julie.
Talked to one of her their
administrator assistants in there.
I left a message
uh for Julie to call me. I left my phone
number. I never got a response from
Julie.
So, I wasn't surprised about it. I
called NAACP repre- you know, president
and then worked from there.
Then I was getting these calls calls
start coming in. I met with couple of
employees came to my home and I'm I'm
like this, if I can't you're welcome to
come to my house and share a concern.
And I gave them some advice and what I
would do,
uh track things, you know, take notes,
etc. etc.
And it seems like um
it was becoming a hostile environment.
>> Mhm.
>> And when it becomes a hostile
environment, the care of the patients is
going to be affected. And that was my
main focus.
Um considering what was going on, people
walking on eggshells, you never knew who
was going to be next be fired.
>> Mhm.
>> Um you're firing people that are had
intelligence. So the people that were
skilled skilled nurses that experience
had skilled nursing skills, you're going
to get rid of them who could be a
benefit to you since you're new. So so
you get rid of them because naturally
they would they would be a type of
person that would help you.
>> Mhm.
>> Right.
>> Instead of getting rid of them
you but see they were that was a threat
to her.
To the new cuz you got someone
intelligent that knew more about medical
stuff.
>> Mhm.
>> And she maybe she did
see and then we couldn't when I was a we
were accused of not meeting with her
or why didn't we ask questions about her
credentials. But what was the point of
asking a whole lot of questions when she
was already hired?
>> Mhm.
>> See.
>> So that So and I think this is important
for the community to understand is that
based on our charter and the process we
have implemented right now, the
executive can hire the director, doesn't
require council approval.
Is that
am I
>> necessary I've got to research that
because I've received a phone call from
a previous employee in the county.
>> Mhm.
>> That I think what happened when they
when they took over in 1972 the nursing
home.
>> Yeah.
>> They had a
a commission.
They had meetings.
Um and we had
the council managed to which we didn't
had changed over to the executive yet.
>> Right. Yeah.
>> So I think when we changed over to the
executive form of government
>> Mhm.
>> um it probably fell through the cracks.
>> It was a big
>> a management of the nursing home. So, I
don't know if I I don't know if uh the
first executive Rick Pilot, I don't
know. And that's I'm going to call him
up and check on that. But anyway, I
don't know if Rick Pilot realized what
was supposed to happen. Then you had
Then you had Bob Culver.
>> Mhm.
>> Then you had John Perotto filling in for
him. And then you got Julie. So, they
may not have been aware
of
the responsibility because everything
was running smooth.
>> It was its sort of its own autonomous
>> I am Yeah, no problems. They They passed
their state their state requirements,
you know.
>> Exceeded is my understanding because
it's it I've heard from many people that
have relatives and friends there or who
work there or have worked there that
this was considered the jewel of the
region.
>> And that's what it was. It was It was a
jewel, an example of how a nursing home
should be run.
>> Mhm.
>> Now, maybe nothing has been computerized
or nothing Nothing's perfect in the
perfect world. Computers can shut down.
That's why you have stuff on paper. I
believe in having a paper trail on paper
because a computer could could A hacker
could get in it, destroy. Viruses can
get in your computer and all that stuff.
So, if people write stuff down, that's
no no To me, that's no problem. But you
have a
something writing,
something on a USB drive.
>> Yeah.
>> Those kind of backups means that you
have. So, um instead of coming in there
criticizing
the staff
and changing everything around when you
you just got hired in April. Here it is
August, and all this stuff is stirred
up. That concerns me.
>> Yeah. Is it fair to say I mean you've
you've been on the council quite a while
now and and you've been involved in
community issues for the
decades. Yeah, I mean you're you know,
you you've got the institutional and the
knowledge. Would you say this is one of
the most um
substantial emergencies that you've seen
in the community as far as a concern?
>> It is It has It has because we're
talking about our vulnerable adults.
>> Yeah.
>> Now, we got to be careful with what's
being done.
Suppose somebody dies in there for lack
of care.
>> Yeah.
>> And that's one of my concerns. You have
patients with dementia. Suppose somebody
falls out of the bed and you don't have
the staff to run and check on them.
>> Yeah.
>> And then you have uh people that English
is their second language. They may not
be able to interpret what's going on.
>> Or give proper medication.
>> Yeah, and and all that kind of stuff.
You have to be You have to be uh
have staff, full-time staff.
And then part-time work should be like
somebody working PRN in case somebody
calls sick.
>> Yeah, auxiliary.
>> Yeah, all that kind of stuff. You can't
make a shift made up of part-time
people.
>> Yeah.
>> Because when you get
When you get working with sick people
and elderly, they're going back in their
second childhood, as they always say.
So, if a patient is used to one aid
working with them, then all of a sudden
these strangers come in.
>> It's a good point. Yeah.
>> Yeah, and and
>> Continuity of care is broken.
>> And it that makes the the the people be
feel safe.
>> Yeah.
>> Because they have the aid that comes in
and only time you they might see a
different aid is when their person is
off.
>> Yeah.
>> And then all the aids, all the nurses
and aids,
they know the patients, all the
patients.
Even if they didn't work on that floor,
they say, "Miss so-and-so, Miss Louise,
how you doing?" And they be not be might
not even be Miss Louise's uh uh
aid or nurse.
>> Yeah.
>> So, um
>> Well, I and I think this goes back to
the thing that you've you always preach
about is that, you know, it's about
people. It's about the connections
there. And even if you want to update
certain aspects of an antiquated system,
that's one thing. but as I think
Delegate Sample you said it it seems
like the current executives
administration is willingly trying to
dismantle
>> I must share with you the day that I
spoke with the administrator of the
nursing home. My first question to her
was is the building being sold? And now
I have since learned that the question
should have been
are you dismantling
the nursing home?
Through the systems. This is a
systematic dismantling approach. When
you go from
uh
forcing persons out that have been there
20, 18, 12 years. And I've met with
these employees. I'm not talking
just to be from hearsay. This is real.
We have about 70 employees that are are
have either
been forced or have been terminated. And
terminated over a phone call. Claimed
they don't want to sell it.
>> Yeah.
>> I don't trust it. I don't trust it
because why would you dismantle
something that's going to make them
fail?
>> Yeah. Well, it's like you you make it
fail and then you have the excuse to
sell it.
>> That's right. That's exactly how I feel.
You got to work together.
The minute the executive got to work
together and the council got to
work with her. But if you have a person
on one end that refuses to work with us
refuses to work with us, but want to get
on social media and become a victim.
But I'm there.
And I can work with anybody.
I did my respect by calling her to let
her know what was going on in the
nursing home. But she choose not to
respond to me.
So that's her problem. Maybe it's not
mine.
>> or anybody on the council.
>> I did what I thought I was supposed to
do. I called the necessary people I
thought needed to know what was going
on. And then I was constantly getting
calls. Constantly getting calls. And I
would call her, "Do you know what do
else is happening over there? Blah blah
blah." You know, I was getting that and
I I would inform him what I've been
called about. And I believe every word
they said. They weren't just disgruntled
employees. They were not disgruntled
employees.
>> You had a You had a lady that spoke uh
2 weeks ago and then she stood up there
and spoke again yesterday, and I believe
she was uh
>> She was fired.
>> part of the finance department. And she
said she was not a disgruntled
ex-employee that and and she wouldn't
take her job back if it was offered to
her. You know, she she's not looking to
get her job back. She's trying to make
the public aware that there's
>> a problem. There is a problem. And
Dolores has spoke yesterday, she was the
assistant director of nursing. She's a
registered nurse. So, why would you get
rid of her and then the the current uh
uh
um
the director of nursing, she's putting
her resignation
for September 12th. So, you can put a
gag order all you want on people, but
the word gets out some kind of way. I
get the information and other people get
it, too.
>> And that's an important point because as
you just mentioned and we've heard
before that there is a gag order in
place.
>> order. There's a policy, understand,
about being on social media.
Um
uh to me, that's a violation and it's
also even whistleblowers have a
protection.
>> Yeah, yeah.
>> So, to me, that's violating
>> So, those people at the nursing that are
employees, they can't get on social
media to talk about it.
>> You can't come to a meeting.
>> Only only certain only officials.
>> And and and I I'm I was told I was told,
I don't know if it's fact, that first
meeting we had all these people here.
The one somebody from the human
resources was writing down names.
>> Mhm.
>> She was standing right in the door cuz
one of the speakers, Dolores, called her
in uh
told her come in. Remember, she called
her in. What was her reason being there?
She was seeing who was at the meeting.
>> Mhm.
>> See, and that's why you didn't see many
people there yesterday.
>> Yeah.
>> Because they are afraid of their jobs
because people need to work. And then
when you make a person part-time
>> Mhm. Yeah.
>> When you make a person part-time, they
lose their insurance. So, if you call
yourself
concerned about the people,
and hard as times are, why would you
throw supposed to be saving money
outsourcing things?
>> But see, I think
>> [clears throat]
>> and I agree with you 100% on what you're
saying, but I think this is all a result
of
for 50 years, basically, in the county
government that nursing home being
ignored by
councils, executives,
and everything. And
nobody nobody, and it was stated
at the previous meeting
>> [clears throat]
>> on the 4th of August,
nobody knows who's in control of that
nursing home. Is it the council? Is it
the executive
>> Well, see,
>> Because it was ignored.
>> It was ignored. See, what I think when
it changed over
to the executive form of government,
that's when it got ignored. Because
because I had a call by previous
employee of the county
who
was the secretary. They took minutes.
They had a commission. So, basically,
what we're doing
>> is going back to reading stating
>> They they they met at the nursing home.
They had luncheons lunch They would have
lunch there. So, what I'm saying is
being reinstated.
And if we didn't know And we didn't know
this woman in a way,
in a way,
I thank this woman for doing this.
Because if she hadn't been
uh bull- bullying people,
>> We never would
>> we would have never known it that we
needed to be involved in this situation.
So, it was a blessing in a way.
>> way. Well, speaking of that and speaking
of bullying, I'd like to come back in
the next segment and talk a little bit
about some things that happened at the
county council meeting in regard to
testimony, particularly the executive's
comments.
Um so, would you stick with us and we'll
come back for second segment and talk
about that. All right, we'll be right
back with our next segment of open
agenda.
Welcome back to open agenda. Thanks for
sticking with us and thank you for
sticking with us. Ms. Shields, happy to
have you here. And we here. Happy to
have you and
Mr. Watkins, thank you, sir.
So when we left off we talked about how
these concerns that have been building
for several weeks and and really months
it seems now in hindsight based on all
the disruptions and issues at the
nursing home
have kind of boiled over at the council
meetings, particularly the meeting that
we had yesterday
excuse me, that would be earlier in the
week on August 18th.
And [snorts]
one of the things that struck me and I
don't know if it struck you is after a
very
I guess you could say contentious back
and forth between the executives legal
team
and the council and Bob Benson.
There there were discussions about a lot
of things, but one of the things that
that kept coming up was
this issue of liability and litigation.
>> You know, we're worried about I mean
it's been proclaimed that there's
concerns about the legal challenges we
might get due to the fact this is an
emergency legislation.
I agree 100% with Council and Shields
that I'd be much more concerned about
the legal exposure we have right now
today and what could possibly occur
within the next month or two months
should we have an unfortunate set of
circumstances. Somebody passes away in
this nursing home within the next three
weeks. We're already exposed as a
county. I think we need to take measures
to share that we're being proactive to
try to address these concerns that have
been brought to our attention.
>> Mhm.
>> And I don't know how you took it, but
but I got the sense just from being in
the crowd and and watching was that it
seemed like the executives legal team
was almost insinuating that they would
perhaps engage in legal action against
the county if this emergency act was
passed and yet the council and Bob
Benson basically said, "Look, we have to
pass this emergency legislation because
the county will be held liable God
forbid somebody gets injured or hurt."
Is is my
observation correct you think or was I
>> I think
that the county council is blessed with
Bob Benson.
And he said that we had other emergency
legislations, the cannabis legislation
and something to do with title health.
This is concerning people, our elderly
that has contributed to this community.
And I think that
you we're protecting ourself to avoid
litigation if something happens to one
of those patients out there and they're
they're our vulnerable adults. And and
if you don't care nothing about them and
they vote,
the ones that can understand,
they vote. They're my constituents and
I'd be less than a person not to be
concerned of what like their care, you
know.
Um and we all should care about our
elderly even if they're not in a nursing
home. You should check on them when the
when the heat we check on them see if
they got heat in their air condition be
cool. You're supposed to do that for our
our parents, our grandparents, our
neighbors.
>> Least for me and I think other people we
were so disturbed by how the executive
uh handled herself when she came into
the meeting later.
>> It was stated that I violated the
charter by not bringing Tina in front of
you.
You all saw Tina after she was hired by
me. We did a closed session and at no
point in time was it brought up that
there needed to be a confirmation and
the previous director was not confirmed
by this council either.
I would have brought her in front of you
and you would have confirmed her. And
you want to know why? Because she's
licensed and she came highly recommended
by the last director.
Also, I find it kind of crazy that you
all admit you don't know how it works
and you just pass legislation on it.
It's insane to me.
I have serious concerns that this
legislation crosses the line established
by our charter by inserting the
legislative branch once again into
personnel matters that belong within the
executive branch. The other thing that's
particularly disheartening is that this
legislation appears to be driven largely
by hearsay, complaints from disgruntled
employees, and members of the public who
simply don't have all the facts.
That happened in history. It's called
the Salem witch trials, and we see how
that turned out. I'm so glad this is
amusing to you all. This is a serious
situation.
>> I agree.
>> Anyway,
again,
I find it crazy that people are calling
you all
for complaints when there is a poster
right in there for a state on state
ombudsman. Her name is Cheryl Sinkbell.
To file a complaint. There's posters all
over the walls of the nursing home for
complaints. And you want to know why I
know that? Because I've been there.
And what's very frustrating, not one of
you, you pass legislation, all seven of
you, pass legislation and you haven't
even walked in the nursing home.
>> I know the nursing home.
>> You have not been in the nursing home
with the new director since April, and
you just passed legislation to
ultimately affect it.
>> You don't know that.
>> I do know that. You have not been there
with her.
Anyway, it doesn't matter. You should go
and meet with her. Tour the facility,
speak with her about the operations, and
hear her side before pursuing this
emergency legislation.
You're basing it off of what people said
here,
rather [snorts] than actually going and
seeing. I appreciate Delegate She Sample
Hughes. She goes there daily. So, I
appreciate her letter. I thought that
her letter was great. But, you all are
passing legislation and you've never
even walked the halls with the new
administrator.
>> Because at no point in this entire
county emergency, and I think you'd
agree with me, at no point has the
executive ever responded with a basic I
hear your concerns, I understand why
you're worried, I empathize and
sympathize with the concerns of you and
your loved ones or with the workers.
There has been no basic human human
concern. There's only been a defensive
posturing of I'm right, the director's
cleaning house, and everything that
you're saying is not true.
>> That's right.
>> And I on a human level, I I felt what
happened in that meeting yesterday with
her comments were some of the most, this
is my personal opinion, disgraceful
things that I've seen.
>> Well, it's not professional.
>> No.
>> It's not professional. Now, you can come
fly in there
and do all this criticism and pass
somebody's information that the guy
her personnel record that's no longer
there. What does that prove? Doesn't
prove anything. It proves to me that no
one was keeping track of her sick and
and vacation time.
So,
I'm saying that what does that prove? It
doesn't solve the problem that she's She
incurred the problem because she hired
this woman.
She hired this woman. The woman had
90-day uh probation. I guess they give
still give 90-day probation.
And it was a problem. She didn't She
didn't evaluate this woman
with a facility like that. That's a
medical facility.
That is a medical facility. We didn't
know the lady. Who did you put when you
when you apply for a job? Did she put
uh the
info the job description out in in a
network?
So, you could get the best of the best
because of the type of facility it was.
You don't get the least, you get the
best.
You get the best.
>> Well, one of the things that I heard
yesterday, which I thought was kind of
an interesting was
and I believe it the the gentleman is
the vice president of the
>> Sam Samuel Henry.
>> And the the N double A C P and
his comment
he seemed to have a little bit of
knowledge about the amount of jobs this
lady has held in a short period of years
that you know, she she has no longevity
>> That she has she hasn't worked.
She I guess I can say this.
We didn't
>> [clears throat]
>> interview her prior to her being hired.
>> You couldn't have.
>> She
she came to us as an introduction
because she was already hired. And one
of the council members questioned her
work history. I worked at the hospital.
I have more medical background than she.
I worked in respiratory therapy.
You have to me you can't have a long
gentivity and you have to have
professional
background from previous employment. To
me.
See, I would look at all that. And it it
might have been a rush to get somebody,
but you could have had a interim person
to take over. You could have had the
the director of nursing. You could have
you know, cuz she had a long history.
Anybody to take the place of you found a
qualified person.
>> And and and I to your point as well
jumping off what you said, Ms. Chaney,
it's my understanding that the current
director that was put in by the
executive I believe has worked eight
jobs in 10 years.
>> Well, that's what what he said
yesterday.
>> That that's what was said.
>> I I I have no no knowledge, but that
certainly would would bring that brings
a red flag up to me.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh
>> Especially in such a critical job.
>> Well, with past business experience,
when you have someone who is uh
supposedly had eight jobs in 10 years,
they are one of two things.
They are either incompetent in what
their job [clears throat] is
or they are a person who is hired to go
into a operation or facility
>> And disrupt them.
>> and and [clears throat] disrupt it and
and turn it upside down and and either
rebuild it or get it in a position where
it is sold. So, I mean, those are your
two options.
And neither one of them is a good
option.
>> Mhm.
>> Well, and we've never really been given
by the public a an explanation as to who
by whom and and how she came highly
qualified according to the executive,
right? We We haven't been told who made
those recommendations, why she was
brought in.
>> The executive has stated that she was
highly recommended by the previous
administrator.
Uh now, all of a sudden, there seems to
be a a lot of debate about that.
>> It's
It what has happened
is part of the hiring practice
of our
hiring friends.
>> Mhm.
>> Hiring friends' friends.
Hiring
people's not qualified.
>> Mhm.
>> Cuz if you remember when we first when
she first came aboard, she wanted to
have these two people
>> Mhm.
>> uh in her office
with a salary and we voted it down and
she wanted to take us to court or
something, whatever she did.
But, why would you hire people
just hire them because they're
acquaintances of yours or worked on your
campaign or whatever?
>> So, do you think systematically this
county executive, Julie Giordano, is
basically operating in such a way where
she is hiring friends, friends of
friends, or people that are
>> are people that think like her.
>> Mhm.
>> People that think like her.
>> Even if they're not qualified.
>> Y- And if they're not qualified. People
that think like her. If you have really
concerned about your constituents, you
wouldn't have to worry about and be open
with people, up front with people. And
you know, people are not going to always
agree with you. You have to have a thick
skin when you're in politics or in any
leadership role cuz people are going to
criticize you. Just like what she did
on the Tuesday's meeting, she flies in
there, thinks she's going to make
Well, I didn't feel bad. I think it was
unprofessional myself. She didn't make
me feel bad and all that and
you know, she looked bad to me.
>> Yeah.
>> It's
what she did, she hurt herself. She
didn't hurt me, she didn't hurt them
council members. She hurt herself by
attacking us. Now, if you could do that,
come in a meeting to attack,
>> Yeah.
>> why can't you sit in a meeting with your
constituents when they're talking about
an issue that's a concern of the public?
>> Or I'll put it another way. If she has
such contempt for the other branch of
government that is elected to have
oversight and legislative authority in
the county, how do you think she's going
to ever even care about an elderly
person at the Wicomico Nursing Home?
>> She don't care about that. She don't
care about them. Because if she cared
about them, she would give the the new
administrator
uh
uh
advice and not making those drastic
changes. But when she came in office,
that's what she did. She made drastic
And I gave her that advice. I said, "You
have to learn people. Don't take what
people say about somebody cuz they don't
like them. You watch and pray." That's
what my grandma used to say. "Watch and
pray. Learn those people. Learn and see
if the truth is being told." But she One
woman got fired
off off a text. What kind of mess is
that? You don't do that. This Out here,
this lady here at the nursing home, she
fired somebody off on the telephone
call.
What kind of What kind of
What What is that? What did they do
wrong?
>> Yeah. Well, it goes back to the point
about when it's not about the people,
this is what happens.
But I think, thankfully, the people are
finally getting
some measure of comfort from the fact
that the council has stepped up this
>> I'm so proud of uh first of all John
Cannon I give him credit and an attorney
coming up with the legislation
uh
it's very important and it showed that
the council cared about people.
>> I think we're in a good place as we move
forward with this emergency legislation.
We'll see how it progresses as we get to
the September 15th meeting.
Um thank you both for joining us for
taking the time and informing the public
specially you Councilwoman Shields cuz I
think the public owes you a great debt
of gratitude for what you've been doing
to not only speak out on behalf of our
elderly and our most vulnerable but to
do it in such a forceful and honest way
cuz we need more of that in local
government honestly.
>> Cuz you have honesty the best policy.
>> Amen.
Well, thanks for watching this episode
of Open Agenda and we'll be back next
week with a new episode. Take care.
